Thread regarding SAS Institute layoffs

@gair+1p62KWrg
Not that I'm aware of. Nor offers for early retirement.

Trick or treat, smell my feet.

It's the end of the month today. Anymore layoffs?

Regarding - "Where were all the layoffs in the first half of October?"

Perhaps this post answers your question.
https://www.thelayoff.com/post/@dwb+1oXslikp

If that post is accurate, then I'm guessing the layoffs took place on Oct 4th.
But I haven't seen any 3rd party (N&O article) validating it even happened.

Where were all the layoffs in the first half of October?

https://matduggan.com/us-layoffs-are-unspeakably-cruel/

Open Enrollment email will likely come out by Wednesday of next week I'm guessing.

Who thinks they'll be another VRBP announcement embedded in that email, like in 2018?

Who thinks there won't be and they'll continue to use targeted layoffs?

This is sad. If you have any additional information - who will be most impacted, etc. that would be great to know. Good luck to everyone!

@1sin+1p62KWrg -

Disgusting and disgraceful story.

@1sin+1p62KWrg

I've worked with some nasty critters in my time, but the critters at SAS were the nastiest by far. There seemed to be significant gender x politics x cult interaction effects present in that environment.

This has probably lessened to some extent since it's apparent that the company is no longer the paragon of growing revenue that it once claimed to be. The nastiest critters may have left in search of newer, greasier poles to climb elsewhere. Interpret that however you want, as I firmly believe that SAS culture was rife with greasy pole-workers seeking to aspire by hook or crook. That's just one more variable within the SAS regression equation.

The trumped up charges sound ridiculous and don't hold the water.

@1zie+1p62KWrg

Trumped up charges -

Not returning an email about an issue that has been discussed without resolution a dozen times previously.

Speaking in a firm tone of voice during a meeting about an important issue.

Not building a feature that had no infrastructure to support its functionality, which was incompatible with the existing infrastructure that the CTO ordered all teams to standardize on, and which had no support plan from the infrastructure team.

Ridiculous things with no defense = trumped up charges.

@1zie+1p62KWrg

True story: a toxic female former academic in her 30s rises to power because she has a doctorate, although not in a mathematically rigorous field preferred at SAS. Her first act is to drive out the very man who helped her get there — a compassionate soul who always played well with others that had a great working relationship with many SAS customers.

Apparently, she wanted to create the department “in her own image” — 30 something “high-powered“ females. Several department employees, including females near her age (who pre-dated said woman’s employment at SAS and highly respected the man in question) cringed and quit. She went as far insinuating a “me too” question to see if that could be used against this man. Alas, every woman who worked with him affirmed that he was like a brother and had never even hinted at any impropriety.

Then she got HR to eliminate his job. He happen to be going through a very difficult family situation at the time. Thankfully he has rebounded and AFAIK is doing great. She is no longer at SAS. Of course, there are treacherous people across the “gender spectrum”. Watch your back! In the end, if they are in management, HR will almost always side with them and you will ultimately leave SAS. This grieves the soul of many of us who built up the company. Good, productive people get pushed out and treacherous toxic ones get promoted.

Voluntary packages would be the most compassionate I feel, but also the most costly. I guess they also give employees more control too. Assuming the company doesnt veto your package acceptance. An across the board pay cut would probably lower morale more than the small number of layoffs we have seen so far.

What kind of things do you mean by trumped up charges?

@1gti+1p62KWrg

I don’t know whether that story is from Building Q, but I could give you a very similar story from Building A.

Trumped-up charges are allowed, if they help reduce headcount.

@vfn+1p62KWrg … is your story from Building Q/SSOD (or whatever it’s now called) or ??

Pay cuts instead of layoffs seems more compassionate.

But....employers can choose which workers to lay off; they can’t do that in the case of a pay cut.

Another reason is a pay cut affects everyone, or should. When it is time to trim, the employer usually prefers to target the layoff to trim fat.

No matter the reason(s), the employer wants to always be in control. Not saying that is right but am saying that is the way it is. That aspect will continue to persist.

I worked at SAS for nearly 30 years and saw alot of unnecessary fat. Why some negative ROI products were allowed to live on was puzzling. The problem SAS is addressing now should have been addressed ongoing. Instead of keeping the buffet open for the fat to bloat to the point of being a handicap.

The software industry went through an industrial revolution of sorts. SAS did not notice soon enough and kept most efforts to evolution instead of revolution. A poor choice in hindsight, but certainly not the first to succumb. The end resultnfor SAS is their largest asset is renewals. Unfortunately, that cow is producing less and less milk as time marches on. The SAS customer base is dying and that will hasten the declining renewal revenue stream.

The inevitable ending should be clear to most. The only outstanding question is when.

I'll never understand the (IMHO) stupidity of layoffs vs pay cuts.

Sure with a pay cut some folks will leave sooner or later. But I'd rather have 80% of something than 100% of nothing. And the company doesn't have experience vanish immediately.

But then again, that's just me.

From the date of the post, it seems like the elimination of some PSD jobs was done in late September, what were the October layoffs other than the 1 Principal in Dev?

I would have preferred to work for several more years, too, but...

...given the chaotic, erratic, incompetent, resource-wasting manager that I had been assigned to, the high school clique climate, a department full of new interns who were placed on a pedestal, the manager's childish and triangulating behavior, and a product where I didn't make any headway, I stayed because it was the best option compared to competing alternatives elsewhere.

They wanted me to leave, and with their behavior, they subtly and not-so-subtly let me know it. They weren't going drive me out with their crazy behavior for free, though. Eventually, they paid me to leave once I asked HR "What in the heck is going on here?!?!"
They used a series of trumped-up charges to do the deed.

You have to play the cards you are dealt, and being paid well while awaiting the payoff to leave was what I figured would give the largest payoff.

That manager is now a Senior Director. Go figure.

A few years ago a Principal dev in IT retired, and I was told they were taking their comp amount and using it to hire 3-4 devs in Pune.

All IT positions are being hired in Pune first.

"Is IT is also experiencing layoffs or just R&D. I have noticed there have been few to no internal IT positions opened up in a long time."

When someone departs IT they haven't been backfilling the position. To my knowledge layoffs in IT have been pretty much non-existent.

Do we know the numbers for earlier oct layoff and upcoming?

Is IT is also experiencing layoffs or just R&D. I have noticed there have been few to no internal IT positions opened up in a long time.

“I would prefer to work for several more years, but given the current atmosphere of uncertainty and lack of direction (as well as knowing that "they" want to cull the herd by getting rid of people my age (and honestly, I do understand it to an extent)), I will almost surely take a package if offered.”
That was precisely my thought process in 2021 when I accepted the VRBP.

I would prefer to work for several more years, but given the current atmosphere of uncertainty and lack of direction (as well as knowing that "they" want to cull the herd by getting rid of people my age (and honestly, I do understand it to an extent)), I will almost surely take a package if offered. I'm half expecting to see it offered in the Open Enrollment email like it was in 2018.

Will people at subsidiaries like JMP or IDeaS be affected, or just SAS employees?

I hope you’re right on the retirement package. Sayonara SAS!!