Thread regarding SAS Institute layoffs

"Wanting is not enough....one has to be capable and competent in order to run a successful company."

"When has that ever stopped them?"

That's why SAS is in the pickle it is in and that's sad, isn't it? SAS needs to break this habit for sure.

“Viya was give almost 10 years to go production — with backward compatibility.”

Functional parity, maybe, but backward compatibility? If you mean backward compatibility with SAS then that certainly wasn’t a consistent order throughout the entire 10 years. And if OS didn’t achieve it during his reign, who dropped the ball? And who is utlimately responsible?

I (@3coa+1sombWJQ) did not mean to imply that the Broadcom talks were a consequence of the Big German leaving. For all we know, Broadcom contacted SAS. SAS is the sort of company they often acquire.

I did mean to imply that the event sequence is logical. Viya was give almost 10 years to go production — with backward compatibility. That was the assignment. Viya has yet to reach that goal.

In this situation, whether talks were initiated by SAS or by Broadcom, it’s logical for SAS to talk with Broadcom.

It’s equally logical for SAS to talk with all interested buyers, and try to get them bidding against each other. And if SAS does not receive an acceptable offer, an IPO offers an alternative exit strategy.

"Maybe the timing of the Schabenbugger leaving and the talks with Broadcom were coincidental and had nothing to do with one another?"

Or more likely maybe not. It could be an action/reaction situation.

"JG is an experienced businessman. I believe he knows exactly what he is doing."
He's got 'em right where he wants 'em, huh? Surrounded from the inside?

"JG gave the Big German years to execute his vision. JG is probably more disappointed by the outcome than any of us. Immediately after BG left, SAS began talks with Broadcom."

Maybe the timing of the Schabenbugger leaving and the talks with Broadcom were coincidental and had nothing to do with one another?

"Wanting is not enough....one has to be capable and competent in order to run a successful company."

When has that ever stopped them?

"JG knows better than any of us what a pickle he is in.”

JG is an experienced businessman. I believe he knows exactly what he is doing.

JG gave the Big German years to execute his vision. JG is probably more disappointed by the outcome than any of us. Immediately after BG left, SAS began talks with Broadcom.

Clearly, Broadcom did not make a sufficient offer. Immediately after that, SAS announced its IPO plan.

SAS has incentivized its experienced, higher-paid employees to leave, and replaced only some of them with younger, cheaper people. Headcount has been reduced 15-20% from its peak. The sales-per-employee metric has improved.

Sales and Marketing have been directed to concentrate on Viya. As a result, BH can now announce that Viya sales have increased 30% (off some low base). SAS has also announced AI-related technology. Both announcements are attractive to prospective buyers.

We can’t know what JG is thinking. But all these actions are logical, if a decision to sell the company has been made.

By early 2025, SAS will have three years of audited financial statements, which meets SEC requirements to IPO. An IPO is a guaranteed sale, at the best price the market will bear.

At this moment, SAS can provide two years of audited financial statements. SAS could show those statements under NDA, to Broadcom, private equity, and any other prospective buyers. SAS could say, “What’s your best offer?” and get them bidding against each other.

An experienced businessman might do that.

Wanting is not enough....one has to be capable and competent in order to run a successful company.

It's possible that some of the off-brand children want to run things.

Agree with the previous comment. None of his kids want to run the company, even the one who pulls all the strings in marketing behind the scenes. So what to do? Try to get more money out of it. All that private jet maintenance isn't free ya know.

"JG knows better than any of us what a pickle he is in."

I do wonder about that. Does he regarded it as a pickle? Maybe he just sees SAS as a reflection of himself.

It's growth phase long gone. The mid-life phase well and truely over too. And now, advancing in years, gradually slowing down, heading towards the inevitable.

I doubt he sees the IPO as something to turn the company around. More like, putting the company into a nursing home for it's final years, thus removing the burden of care off him and his family.

Hiring an academian who blew off marching orders to make Viya compatible with SAS9 was a major catalyst to SAS tanking. Hiring recent college grads now is a too little too late dose of medicine cure the sickness.

If there is a cure for SAS, experience and vast business knowledge will be central to the cure.

JG knows better than any of us what a pickle he is in.

@1lfs+1sombWJQ

We used to joke that, when deciding whom to promote, they used the SAS RANDOM() function.

But actually the criteria were just loose — loose enough to promote people for longevity rather than ability. “Being somewhere for n number of years” often was a path to promotion.

So one reason for the complaints is that the rules have reversed. Now people are being laid off — *for the exact same behavior that used to reward them”.

Clearly there is a push for youth these days.

I’m sure some of you talking about being stagnant in the same position deserve more. But I’m equally certain plenty of you complaining about it hit the appropriate plateau.

Not everyone is going to be a manager. Not everyone is going to be a director. Not everyone is going to be a principal.

You can say there are folks in those jobs that don’t deserve it and that is a fair assessment.

But that doesn’t mean being somewhere for n number of years should entitle you to a promotion.

I left in 2020. I was a Principal Dev but my manager was required to replace me with a junior person. The policy goes back at least that far.

It is discriminatory, therefore illegal, but hard for a rejected job applicant to prove. When I left, I got rejected many times. I’m sure most of them were due to my age, but I never tried to prove it.

I expect SAS is taking advantage of the current market by offering lower salaries. In years past, they would also have used it as an opportunity to grow the company, but not anymore.

The benefits aren't that great. They are better elsewhere.

Hire them when they are young and impressionable. Mold their minds with cult programming, just like David Koresh did.

Stagnant in the same job for 5 years? Try 10 or 15 or 20. Now internal mobility isn't even lateral anymore. If you're long in the tooth you will need to accept a demotion to do anything even slightly different. Yeah they don't cut your pay but your level is reduced and that factors into your bonus algorithm. Again, thanks SAS.

If that's breaking the law then they're breaking the law. It's very blatant, wanting only young people. They get around it by saying "early career." Early career is just another way of saying young.

If that's indeed the case that SAS is only interested in hiring young people, it will break the federal non-discrimination law...

I agree with @fdl+1sombWJQ. They are definitely looking to hire more and more early career. For those who are mid to senior level in their careers: I would tell anyone interested in working for SAS, come but don't expect promotions and career growth opportunities like you see at other companies. They are far and few the higher up you go. You can make a series of lateral moves to zig and zag but there is no true upward mobility. People have been stagnant in roles and same job titles for 5+ years once they get to a certain level. The pay as well is another issue. It is not as competitive as other companies. If you want to feel good about your work, get generally above-industry benefits, then yes, SAS is for you. But if you are looking for growth, it seems like only a few chosen get to rise in ranks if the leadership really likes you.

I would say yes they are taking advantage of it. The company seems overall only interested in very young / early career hires. There is a huge push to only hire young people in order to bring down the average age of sas employees since the work force skews older due to long-timers not leaving.