Lumen is not on the verge of bankruptcy.
32 replies (most recent on top)
@js
The pension fund was short 323 million during an audit in 2002. The next audit at the end of 2003 is was overfunded by 2 million. So yes, it was recovered. As of 2021 it was funded at 103 percent. That means overfunded correct? This sh-t is easy to look up.
@100 Ha, you wish… I have keys that I’m authorized to have, along with an id badge old Samsung 23..
you’re just Oblivious to what’s going on! You’re like one of the Drunks on the titanic, Who goes back to the bar to listen to the Band while you keep getting hammered! Even though the cold Atlantic waters are getting your socks wet!
Be ready to swim for it ships going down fast..
So when you got fired you kept an extra set of keys. No wonder you’re so pi---d real employees still have a pension. Poor widdle guy.
FCC rules changed not too long away allowing the decom. Yes they will be shut off, how long depends on the factors like alternative services for that customer. Some small areas do not have cell coverage so it's not just a shut off here. But yes we will shut it off one day.
AT&T already tried, you either go fiber or you continue taking care of the copper. I think building out all these outstate offices will be cheap and will be easy money in the future.
@eg You are correct that joey did not go to prison for stealing from the pension fund. That being said, he absolutely raided the pension fund and it has never recovered. Between 2000 and 2003, Qwest paid over $400 million in severance benefits from its employee pension fund. While the Department of Labor (DoL) considered taking legal action regarding these payments, it ultimately decided against it.
@ee It’s probably under funded by a greater margin than just 10-15%. They had to put a substantial amount of additional funding (I don’t remember the exact dollar amount-it was in the annual report that nobody reads) into the pension fund for Brightspeed. Approval of the spinoff was contingent upon them doing that. I know that always happens in those situations, it was just shocking to me how large the amount was.
@ey lmao, my key ring has still has Best keys along with Flacon keys,,
You Pension snobs jumped and hijacked a thread about the discontinuation of copper! I’ve been purposely be obtuse just to Troll you for saying the company can’t go bankrupt and people can’t lose pension monies.. looks like it worked
nothing is actually guaranteed in this world! Nothing!
You guys are all on here arguing with a desperate short seller. Not with employees or ex employees. He actually thinks people in this forum are buying and selling and hes trying to persuade everyone to sell. Really pathetic he thinks hes swaying anyone with his doom and gloom. Probably find him on multiple boards swilling the same garbage.
@eh
"Question now is how then how did United get away with cooking their books and pull 10 billion out of their pension plan to pay bills with no one noticing Or setting off alarm bells"
Lol is correct. Youre really bad at this. United didnt cook the books so it could pull money out of the pension fund to pay its bills. It flat out didnt fund it. As in, they didnt contribute the money to keep it solvent. Thus, the lawsuits that turned into bankruptcy. Do you really think you can just make things up and no one can easily fact check it? You must be a special kind of stupid. And exactly why are you so gung ho to see the company declare bankruptcy and hoping people lose their pensions?
@en but what if those assets values are wrong
if those fiber assets were worth that much, they should be bringing a lot more revenue.. over all lumen just lost another 915 million last quarter!
They have now converted close to 50% of the mass market customers over to Quantum which doesn’t have the operational costs that the copper side has so The financial losses from mass markets should be pretty low by now..but they aren’t! The last 1 million copper customers in Mass markets are some how dragging down the entirety of the company, did all one million of those customers need a repair call and get a refund? Or is someone fibbing on the revenue and value of its enterprise and or moving cost off of on ledger to another??
They already sold Quantum for a few billion less than what they had originally put it on the market for? It was supposed to bring in 7-9 billion! Seems to me they Pawned it out of desperation
@ef the reason bankruptcy isn't on the table is because the fiber plant is a very valuable asset. Despite the tremendous loss of customers, LUMN invests a substantial amount in their fiber plant every single year. The debt is going to be around $15B after we sell off Quantum. So before all the customers leave the SLT would sell the plant for $25-30B. Then liquidate the rest of the company and parachute out. Many people think that's been the strategy all along.
If Lumen wasn’t on the verge of bankruptcy, and failure.. there would not have been a reason to bring Kate on board IN ORDER TO TURN THE COMPANY AROUND and reinvent its self!
If it was financially solid it would have simply stayed the course.. Kate herself has said in interviews that she here to save the ship from its past ..
“Do you think there’s no oversight?“
Bernard Lawrence Madoff! = is a 56 billion dollar example of lack of oversight!
@eg lol okay sure..
Question now is how then how did United get away with cooking their books and pull 10 billion out of their pension plan to pay bills with no one noticing Or setting off alarm bells .. ?
I do know that the executive that came from US west to Qwest and kept Joe fingers out of the pension plan has since retired..
@ef
“ And we don’t really know what its funding levels are.. Let alone what the real financial situation of the company is, we just know what they tell us..”
We really do know what it’s funded at. The funding statement doesn’t come from lumen. The sec releases it every 2 years I believe. Do you think there’s no oversight? If not why don’t they just say they make 20 billion a year and have 0 debt? Stock price would skyrocket.
As for nachio the one thing he didn’t goto prison for was stealing the pension, which he desperately wanted to do.
@ee “it's hard to see a path where LUMN goes bankrupt“
It’s hard to see a path where it doesn’t,
And we don’t really know what its funding levels are.. Let alone what the real financial situation of the company is, we just know what they tell us..
Joe Nacchio didn’t go to prison for using handicap parking spots
@dw Totally FALSE. The pension is a separate asset and not available to pay creditors. In the case of a bankruptcy (and it's hard to see a path where LUMN goes bankrupt), the issue is the unfunded liability. LUMN is currently underfunded. I think it's 10-15%. So if it went bankrupt you would only get $0.85 to $0.90 on the dollar. That's why it makes sense for most people to take the lump sum. As long as they are not in bankruptcy you get 100% of the lump sum. If you go the annuity route your benefit could be cut in bankruptcy.
@e7 I’ve seen in Documentary's about this subject, my understanding is that courts have repeatedly ruled that Pensions are company assets,
Front line has made a whole series of TV shows about how fragile Pensions are! They Have even interviewed people from The PBGC who tell the story about having to negotiate with creditors about the subject of pension funds!
So what I’m hearing from you is that producers of Front line The folks at the PBGC are wrong! And that the Corporation for public broadcasting is spreading Lies and misinformation
@dw
“ When Lumen goes bust, the pension its self goes to pay the creditors”
Pensions are separate from a companies assets and are protected from creditors. Under the erisa law creditors are not able seize the funds. And before you refer to the ONE, yes ONE case you base your whole theory on you should read up on it. United was over 9 billion dollars short of their obligations. About 58 percent UNDERFUNDED! They terminated 4 pension plans resulting in SOME reduced benefits. Not all. None of the money went to creditors. The pension was turned over to the PBGC which paid 6 billion of the 9 billion that was short. In 2022 lumens pension fund was at 103%. In 2023 it was as at 89% after multiple buyouts/layoffs/retirements. Far cry from your comparison of negative 58% and billions of dollars at United.
Do you think the PBGC could cover the approximately 1.2 billion at lumen if it were to go bankrupt today? That’s all it would cost to pay out 100 percent. “Think on that for a moment”
Is this Joe Nacho-mama? Still trying to get his grubby hands on the pension fund 25 years later?
@d8 the pension fund is insured not guaranteed, it’s insured for UP TO 60% of it’s value, if the company goes bust the entire pension fund goes into the company treasury to satisfy its creditors!
Quote: The Pension Benefit Guaranty Corporation (PBGC) was created by the Employee Retirement Income Security Act of 1974 to encourage the continuation and maintenance of private sector defined benefit pension plans, provide timely and uninterrupted payment of pension benefits, and keep pension insurance premiums at a minimum ...
Lumen has an insurance policy on the plan, my understanding is that it’s insured for UP TO 60% of its value!!
When Lumen goes bust, the pension its self goes to pay the creditors. lumen pensioners will get their pension money from the insurance company not from lumen at that point … “think on that for a moment”
- what ever you are getting or were going to be get you’ll only get up to 60% afterwords.. Lumen also only funds and keeps the value of the pension at a bare legal minimum!
PBGC guaranteed amounts only apply if the pension fund have insufficient funds. A company can get PBGC to take over a plan and the plan still pays the full amount if there's enough money in the pot.
@dj Bud they lost their pensions.
The same can happen to Lumen.
@de lol, United Airlines pensions were WAY higher than any pension you can make at Lumen. Not to mention it was underfunded by 10 billion dollars, not even in he same universe as Lumen's pension. Might wanna brush up on your facts a bit there bud.
@d8 don't plan on it. Look at what happened to United Airlines employees a few years back.
Plus the union contract expires next March. Watch them try to freeze the pensions and cut wages.
@cr Pension fund is guaranteed up to a specific monthly amount by the PBGC. That amount is far beyond what any of us will make on the pension.
I'm hoping they're not brutal enough to spin off the rest of mass markets and let it go bankrupt and put the pension fund in serious trouble
Agree. Won’t happen all at once. AT&T says by early 2029 they will turn off all dial tone. I think at a minimum 2-3 years, but I’m in the phoenix metro area.
There are over 800 wire centers, logic dictates that each wire center will go away in it’s own time.. what I do know is they are working on shutting down the smallest centers first, especially the small rural wire centers that have been over built by a Clec who took the federal dollars for rural fiber builds, and I know that the amount of participation by Clec’s in federal grants programs varies state by state! I’m my RCA, that use to have 50k pots customers in 2005, by Christmas this year every one of them will have access to Clec fiber, we have Zero Quantum fiber, only enterprise..
Sooner the better!