If that's where they decide to cut, I'm all for it. We don't need this many layers of managers, realistically. And we certainly don't need people who'll show up once in a while in a supposed problem-solving mode just to tell us to "communicate better" as a solution and then disappear again. Are you kidding me with that?
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It sounds more like the issue here is having sh---y PMs rather than PMs as a whole. I have not met an engineer that could manage a project worth a damn. I’ve also met program managers and product managers who are the same way.
As an engineer I feel there is no need of product managers / project managers. There are tools that can help managge a product and track progress. We communicate directly with customers and get proper feedback. Adding product/ project managers adds a layer in communication channel and often there are unnecessary meetings to get clarity.
@cb+1 - Right-on! Echo'ing what others have said. Multiple PM's, product owners, business managers, and marketing people. This for small development teams of maybe 3-4 devs and 1 validation person... As an architect, I'd be in 10+ people meetings w/people who'd chime-in on the project, but were never involved in the project and clueless about what the project is... And, yes, the PM's and marketing people lived in an echo chamber where they would throw out requirements, but they weren't real... didn't make sense and, at the end of the day, nobody wanted our stuff. No real customers...
It's wasn't just Intel, it's their counterparts at other companies as well. Of course, their game was just to get funding from Intel so they agree with anything our marketing teams would say. Overall, a complete cluster.
Still, hope Intel gets lean/mean and figures out their way. But, gotta get rid of the fluff.
Yes, exactly: We have more managers than there are people doing the actual work.
We have more managers than there are people doing the actual work.
PM are people who have nothing to do. They created job for themselves to monitor and summarize what others do. It is a waste of time to explain and get approval from them. When I work on night and weekend, the PM just spend a minute to collect information and claim it is their job and contribution.
@ca if they are talking to customers that much that sounds like a product manager.
@ce I respectfully disagree. I am technical, and I can manage my own projects. In my experience, adding a project manager may remove a small amount of work from my plate, but overall it increases the number of pointless meetings and the amount of busywork I have to do. I'd much rather spend some of my time managing my own project than spend it creating powerpoints that noone will look at and attending meetings that don't accomplish anything.
@by While I agree there are too many project managers, if you remove them completely then you leave the technical workers to keep the project organized and deal with all the bureaucracy. There is alot involved in project/program management and if you guys want to add that to your workload, then you will be doing even more work. Is that what you want? I believe what is needed is the right project managers who help properly.
PMs usually engage in "hear say evidence" leading us in a direction not based on customer request or data
Not only are program managers unnecessary, they often hinder progress because they “talked to customers who said they want things done this way” and then the entire engineering team has to explain why that’s a bad idea.
Most of the time, I doubt those customer meetings even took place because it’s such a d-mb a-s suggestion. But I can’t prove it.
@a7 People would be more inclined to listen to what you say if you didn't insert infantile names for the company in your post. Try to be an adult.
Project Managers are not required. Any company that still has them after 2026 is a failure. Salesforce's new AI is autonomous.
If there are a lot of PMs the company is not innovating.
Yes, this is the problem. Lots of PE, Sr.PE get promoted due to program/project management not doing actual work.
Same here in my team
Two program managers and one manager manage projects. Me and the other guy do all the work.
Most of these people have a track record of backstabbing and throwing others under the bus. They know they arent qualified to get jobs outside ShitTEL