If they will not offer it, HR should somehow get the message out. Then, those of us old farts hanging on in hopes of a package (or fear of retiring right before one is announced) could go ahead and retire and SAS could shed a bunch of costs.
37 replies (most recent on top)
"For someone with 25 years or more of service - the severance package is virtually the same as the VRBP offering - one year of salary."
For the 2018 one, I heard that recipients also got their previous bonus paid out again (in addition to some $ for health insurance as you mentioned). Never heard any rumors that that was the case with the subsequent one though.
For someone with 25 years or more of service - the severance package is virtually the same as the VRBP offering - one year of salary. Now I suppose that for people under 65 there was some sort of bridge money offered to help with health insurance until 65, but that was not a factor if you were over 65.
lol, accurate HR observation.
"They are there to hire new interns, cover up management shenanigans, and to get signatures on trumped up charge sheets"
Much of what you read on here is baloney.
As for rumors, SAS runs on rumors and gossip. Gossip helps the cafeterias flourish. Don't expect anything from SAS HR other than silence and bad news. They are there to hire new interns, cover up management shenanigans, and to get signatures on trumped up charge sheets.
Do ping their Policy pages now and get become familiar with what's in them, along with any updates. These can help you see what's in store in case you are categorized into the "we don't like you" bin.
I would really like to see our HR department get ahead of these rumors and communicate internally about what is being considered for 2024, and to get input from people who would be involved. A coordinated effort benefits those who are eligible and also the company - our mutual interest is for SAS to succeed. Currently we hear nothing and have to resort to external web sites.
"You think you are going to make a difference and change things? SAS has been around for 40 years. It will be around another 40 years."
Someone is in denial all right....No one lives until 120 years old (maybe a very rare one).
SAS won't exist once the founders go. SAS will be sold off one day whether by current owners or their heirs.
SAS was incorporated in 1976, but existed at NCSU prior to that. The genesis of SAS Base (Data Step + basic PROCs) goes back to the original work of Anthony James Barr in the mid-to late-1960s.
SAS as a corporation is approaching its 50th anniversary (2026). Given the state of things today, there is probably a whole range of emotions exist among the long-term employees who contributed to the company's growth/stature and its many successful products.
One has to be in a state of denial to not see the overall decline, which began slowly 10-15 years ago and is sadly becoming more precipitous by the year. From what we have witnessed from 2020 to the present, it is unlikely this trend will reverse.
"Does the T building still have a bunch of bikes stacked up under the stairs?"
iirc, Security got rid of the bikes under the stairs as a rule in all the buildings shortly after I moved from U to Q when Q opened. Caused a lot of First World Problem style bi--hing and moaning.
Does the T building still have a bunch of bikes stacked up under the stairs?
"...It’s clear that there are also many people in denial, who want to believe SAS will go on as it always has. It would be good for those people to read about Broadcom’s VMWare acquisition. They could learn what happens to software companies, out in the Real World..."
"You think you are going to make a difference and change things? SAS has been around for 40 years. It will be around another 40 years."
When he said that, I was thinking maybe another 10, but certainly not 40. One of us is in denial. Still not sure who.
- A former manager.
"SAS does not have a steam room/sauna."
Huh? There's been a steam room and a dry sauna in the men's locker room the entire 13+ years I've been at SAS. Sporadically out of order, but there.
I'm hoping to hang on for the Gold Badge for the pool access myself. Only weekdays, but unlike the YMCA or private pools you can still pretty much always find an open lane with no sharing and no signing up two days ahead. Nothing remotely comparable available in Cary. Of course with my luck it'll get shut down after an IPO months after I retire.... ;)
"Been to Cary campus twice for lunch since retiring ~3 years ago. The vibe feels a shadow of what it used to be and the people do not seem very happy -- at least not in R."
The vibe is very different everywhere - I'm a T guy - but that's more a function of the prevalence of remote work since Covid than general unhappiness. At least in my experience.
@2wpg+1pMlJ7EO "...I retire, I can use the gym, walk on the trails, and eat at the cafeteria..."
...and use the HCC lab, and go to the company picnic (I THINK). Those are the ONLY retirement benefits at SAS. My spouse enjoys using the nice pool (I am still employed) - much better than being at a public pool. A private-property trail is safer than a public trail.
@2dmb+1pMlJ7EO "...SAS does not have a steam room/sauna..."
Up until the mandatory stay-away, I enjoyed both the steam room and the sauna, frequently. Have they been deleted?
Agree on the retrospective. Given what I knew at the time, would do it again as well for the same reasons you succinctly state. However, I would not advise anyone today who is a “senior employee” with 25+ years at SAS to work beyond what is required to do their job well at current title. There’s far too little to be gained from it.
“an honest calculation on the years I pushed hard at SAS would probably add up to $.20 on the dollar…”
I did the same and would do it again, because, at the time, it looked like we had a chance to build some great products. So I have no regrets about working hard. I only regret that SAS did not better use the work.
My career was so disappointing, that made me reluctant to return to campus. But it’s been so good to see the old friends that now I’m glad I did.
At one of my lunches, I met a friend who is still employed. He said that in his department, “Everybody’s worried — but nobody talks about it.” I imagine that attitude is fairly widespread.
It’s clear that there are also many people in denial, who want to believe SAS will go on as it always has. It would be good for those people to read about Broadcom’s VMWare acquisition. They could learn what happens to software companies, out in the Real World.
SAS does not have a steam room/sauna.
I agree that after a forced "retirement" or layoff, people would not feel good about coming back to visit SAS to eat in the cafeteria, using the gym, pool, or walking trails, or even using the HCC. You don't really need these retiree "benefits". The bitterness lingers.
If you retire on your own with or without VRBP/layoff forcing down on you then there's no hard feeling so you may come back for visit or nostalgia's sake but I imagine not many will do so even.
Upon my non-package voluntary retirement SAS gave me $100 (before tax) for every year of service 😀 Could’ve spent some of it on a nice Apple Watch model, but the net would not likely fund a genuine gold one.
If you’re pushing 60 or over, take the voluntary retirement package if it’s offered. If you have 25 years of service or more, you’ll do just fine. Apparently with that term of service you’ll get a similar valued payout if you are laid off.
At this point, it does not benefit employees in these circumstances to work beyond what is required to do your job well. SAS is not going to reward you for extra effort and being hard-core. Truth: an honest calculation on the years I pushed hard at SAS would probably add up to $.20 on the dollar when hours/effort expended vs. realized salary/bonus increase is factored. JG likes a bargain. 😀
I felt ambivalent about coming back to campus. I had some bad experiences; there are a few managers I never want to see again :-).
But I got invited to lunch, and have been several times now, and it has been an absolute joy to see old friends.
That’s it. That’s the value of the gold badge, for me: to see friends. The best part of SAS was always the people.
I would rather have a gold watch too. After 25 years you get a $250 gift card. As far as coming back to campus after retirement? Nope. I plan to move away as I assume do a fair number of other Cary residents.
I've never understood the appeal of SAS retiree benefits. "OMG, if I retire, I can use the gym, walk on the trails, and eat at the cafeteria. I can see old friends who haven't retired!"
The trails are nothing special. The local Parks system produces far nicer trails. There is nothing inherently special about walking on the SAS campus, other than the exclusivity of it. Walking on them after a forced retirement doesn't seem serene.
The cafeterias are nothing special. It's just restaurant food dressed up with flair and great marketing language. There is nothing special about eating at them, other than the exclusivity of them. Eating at one after a forced retirement doesn't seem enjoyable. It seems traumatic.
The gym is a toss up. It does have a pool, and it may have a steam room or sauna. In this case, maybe the exclusivity matters. But how often are you really going to go? Wait...what time does it close again? Does it close before your preferred work out time? Again, where's the benefit? Working out at one after a forced retirement, again, isn't a model of serenity.
If you retire on your own terms, maybe these are okay benefits. But after a forced retirement? No thanks, I'd rather have a gold Apple watch.
Is anyone else seeing an AD on this thread with the tag line:
"Struggling to Climax? Learn how to or---m"
How strange! 😳🥹
Been to Cary campus twice for lunch since retiring ~3 years ago. The vibe feels a shadow of what it used to be and the people do not seem very happy -- at least not in R.
"January 4, 2024. That's the next predicted date of doom. After the Holidays, but before your credit card is due!"
I'm thinking February, not January 4th. Don't go overboard with all the big holidays spending, just in case the ax falls in February.
True. As long as you have 25 years of service at SAS you can qualify to be a "retiree" whether you retire by your own choice, or if you're given a nudge to take VRBP if offered, or if you get layoff. The key is 25 years of service or more and you'll get a "retiree" badge.
Once people are "retired" from SAS, how many and how often these retirees come back to SAS to eat in the cafeteria? I don't think many.
I can see some may come back to use the gym and walking trails if the campus is opened only if they live close to SAS in Cary but people that live farther out, they wouldn't come back for that.
As for HCC, as retirees you can get free flu shots and vaccines (but you can get them for free at pharmacies or your doctor's office too), and (blood or ur--e) lab tests but you can also go elsewhere for that too so you don't need SAS.
VBRP = Voluntary Retirement Benefit Program
January 4, 2024. That's the next predicted date of doom. After the Holidays, but before your credit card is due!
"A person who is laid off has access to none of the above uses, ..." @1esd+1pMlJ7EO
To clarify, if you are laid off, as long as you have 25 years of service at SAS, they will grant you "retiree" benefits (independent of your severance package). But keep an eye on the SAS severance policy - they do update it occasionally.
@1lfa+1pMlJ7EO ...Layoff severance and VRBP are almost the same
One difference is that a retiree is allow to visit the campus to buy lunch in the cafe, use the RFC and walking trails (when there are no campus-access bans), and use the lab services of the health-care center. There are no guarantees that those uses won't be taken away at some point, however. For most retirees, they are not allowed to be SAS employees again (special exceptions are made for those higher up the food chain).
A person who is laid off has access to none of the above uses, but is allowed to apply for future employment at SAS.
Over the past three years, SAS has reduced headcount by around 15%. That’s evidence the goal is not recruiting or retention, but reduction.
There’s also a fourth “R”: we’re overdue for a recession. SAS is safer than many other companies. As long as revenues decline slowly, most folks will survive. But a recession would increase the chances of both VRBPs and layoffs.
Hope for the best. Plan for the worst.
Layoff severance and VRBP are almost the same, with VRBP getting a bit more ( extra like a small healthcare allowance to bridge until 65 if you're 60 or older but not yet 65, and maybe a bonus). SAS is actually generous with severance for employees with 25 or more years, giving them a year of salary for severance.
If SAS is going to get rid of people to save more money than they may as well layoff with severance, although VRBP is the gentler option (but people don't really have a choice...if you're offered VRBP you'd better take it or else you'd get layoff anyway). With layoff SAS doesn't need to target 60 and older. Layoff can happen at any age. VRBP is a way to prevent older employees >=60 from suing for age discrimination.
In the long term, to attract and retain the best talents, SAS needs to pay fair competitive salary and offer better benefits like stock options. Stock options tie the best employees to the company and they'd feel they have a stake in the company and would work harder and be hardcore to make the company a success. Of course SAS will have to select the best (and better) employees and not settle for mediocre (and/or lazy) employees.
SAS most likely won't give out stock options and won't increase the salary to be competitive. That is why the future is bleak for SAS. It is depressing but it is what it is.
It pains us all but what can anyone else do, except The Man, but he's getting on in age so really there is not much hope for change. Consider yourself lucky if you last this far at SAS . If you are younger than 50 and still at SAS, you must seriously consider your future and make sure you have the right skills to jump ship when the time comes or before the end comes. Don't stay too long if you're young and get drown when the ship goes down.
If you are older than 50 then pray really hard because you never know when the ax will fall. It's always wise to be prepared and not get caught off guard. People tend to think layoff happen to someone else and not them, until it happens to them too. So be kind the ones that got the layoff whether they deserve it or not.
In the short term, financially cheaper yes.
In the long term, what impact would such a move have on recruiting and retention efforts?
I retired from a few years back without a package after a long SAS career. My incentive was better employment and more $$ in a remote WFH situation. Would’ve been eligible for a subsequent SAS retirement package offer, but the income increase and job satisfaction in the new position more than made up for it.
My recommendation to anyone who is late 50s or beyond is to simply stay around at SAS as long as you can. If you’ve made it this far, you know your job well and your contribution to SAS more than justifies some kind of compensation on the way out, even if it’s not a year’s salary.
Don’t allow yourself to be disrespected by management either. At this point, there’s no reason to tolerate anyone else’s 🐂💩 at work. Be emotionally detached, do your work well, don’t make waves and let the chips fall where they may.
Focus on your own financial soundness, peace/health and enjoying the rest of your life. JHG has apparently been doing this for many years while his company continues to decline. If he’s not going to exercise an extreme sense of urgency to turn things around at SAS, why should veteran employees who have already given a significant chunk of their life to the company in exchange for a salary and zero equity do so?
The ones that want to stay aren't the ones SAS desperately needs.
The ones that SAS desperately needs aren't the ones SAS is willing to pay to get or keep.
SAS can't bear to layoff the mediocre mass and too cheap to pay for the best ones.
So SAS will drag on for a bit longer until the hole is 6 feet deep...no need to dig all the way to Beijing. Enjoy the ride while it lasts at SAS. It was once a great place to work for many of us but it is no longer is.
The main reason I am hanging on is for the fabled package. Our years are numbered with potential IPO or sale. I would rather just go but I can't make myself knowing the possibility of a package is there.
50-50 chance...but seriously, it is cheaper and more beneficial for SAS to just layoff with a severance rather than a full VRBP offer.
Some of us layed off this year would have gladly taken the package if offered, it would have made for a much less traumatic end to a career
Voluntary Retirement Benefit (Program or Package - I cannot recall for sure the P word)
The chance of having it is 1 if it occurs, and 0 if it does not.
I too am willing to accept a reasonable VRBP offer (the same as the previous ones) and retire, but am planning to remain employed (and productive) if there is no offer. I have been with the company for decades, and enjoy the work. I am only one of many that are in this status. To be frank - in absence of a VRBP, there is currently no incentive for me (us) to leave.
If my HR colleagues are reading - if you want us to stay, then simply do nothing, because stay we will. If you want to reduce headcount, or make room for a younger crowd, then make us the offer! I am happy either way.
Sorry, but what does the B represent? Guessing rest is “Voluntary Retirement ? Package”.