Thread regarding Ford layoffs

Staying motivated at Ford must be nearly impossible for minorities and white women. They must feel so marginalized. I sincerely don't know how they stay so positive in the face of such discrimination. I genuinely hope that things improve for them going forward.

IDK @5wdb. I would say sure poor people who are financially illiterate shouldn’t be given a shovel and a pushed into debt. But no poor people go to college? Thats what grants, scholarships and other financial aide is for. That stuff should NOT be given to the wealthy .
I came from a very poor background and was fortunate enough to get a full ride scholarship and work-study grants.
Two of my brothers should of never went to college. They took out student loans and credit card debt, barely graduated, got zero job offers, ended up doing manual labor, and 20 years on still have not paid off the debts accumulated in college.

And yes I currently fund scholarships for deserving poor students who otherwise would not be able to attend college. By deserving I mean they worked hard in high school, got good grades in difficult classes, and are good citizens. This year a rep from the endowment committee tried to shame me into lowering the requirements for the scholarship and to change the requirements to favor specific races. I told her, NO, if you don’t like it I will pull my funding in its entirety. She seemed to feel entitled to my money.

Credit cards should never be issued to poor people. Yes, that means that most blue collar people will never qualify for a credit card. Trust me, this will be better for them in the long run because it will keep them out of debt. They should only be living the lives that they can afford to pay for out of pocket. And that includes college. They should not have credit cards or be accepted to college if they can't pay for it. Imagine how much better their lives would be if blue collar people were working 40 to 60 hours each week in a labor role - or even a skilled trade! - and taking public transportation between their rented home and their place of employment. They would have no worries. No debt. Their lives would be peaceful for once.

I always encourage people to protect and grow their credit scores. It will open more doors to you than you will ever know. It's not difficult to achieve an 800+ score, and if you do, it's easy enough to transfer that similar score to your offspring right out of the gate at 18 years of age. Using the methods mention below, by the time they're 19 or 20, if they're taught how to manage credit, they'll have the easiest financial path forward in life, and one they'll diligently want to protect. It is a beautiful thing to open up credit card programs, and look at your FICO score. Whether it's 100% accurate or not, some show where your score rates along side of others as a whole. There's something about standing significantly higher than all other groups represented.

So, why do we want a credit card? Well, people want credit cards to spend, whether that be responsibly or recklessly. Responsible people should want many credit cards as a tool. A tool to solidify your credit worthiness. A tool to amplify your credit limit. A tool, gosh forbid you ever had to utilize that amount as a Mad Max scenario back up, credit score be darned. Aim high in how much credit you want access too. A young responsible person, should have minimum of one CC to their name at age 18, and be actively using it for gas, and then paying it off. Ideally, two, cycling each card every few months. It's not unheard of that the offspring can achieve a limit of 10-25k in credit availability between both cards, with a healthy score.

One of the perks of owning so many credit cards is credit utilization, one factor in determining your credit score. The person holding one card with a $10k limit, any balance over $1000 will show you with an unfavorable utilization score. For the person holding 100k in credit cards, that utilization limit is about $10,000. Anything less than 10% is ideal. While the percentages are the same, it's easier to spend over $1k, but less easier to spend over 10k in one setting. Both, effect your score differently. Use responsibly.

Paying off credit cards and other debts are situational. Hold the debt, pay down the debt, or pay off the debt. Sometimes it's strategic to utilize their 0% balance transfer services (at a cost). If you hold a small to mid level debt where you pay 5%+, you can balance transfer to a CC. In 15-18 months, you can do it again. And again. And again. You've accomplished opening up new lines and increasing your credit availability, and you've just rode paying off a debt at near 0% interest. Most new card transfers will not deny you because they want that free money, and they get paid your small fee upfront, to transfer the balance. Use this method responsibly.

There's so much about how scores are determined that many people don't know. The make up of the debt, the weight, the utilization. Yet, it's the most easiest ways to acquire the cheapest avenues in finance. Some people say, if you are wealthy, why do you have a credit line? This is a loaded question. Most of the wealthy in the world, hold debt, and should have access to significant lines. As a tool, you choose when to wield it, and whether you do or do not. This is another post for another time, but in a debt based monetary system, everything is debt. Understanding how money/fiat currency is created, is a teaching I would recommend most people learn about - if they don't know.

@5fds+1mtz062B As I said before, there is sense in your comment. I'm not going to debate the morals of not paying the debt, but there is a weak point in your story. I hope you don't mind me saying this, but as someone that "has walked the talk" and posted these interesting comments, isn't having CC debt a sign of bad financial habits? So why did you have it?

Not paying the minimum means you'll get hit with penalties plus the interest. Let me also mention that the CC interest rates can easily be around 30% APY. That means the 30% settlement you got was actually over 40% of the original debt.

At the same time, having an awful credit score means not only a worse rate if you ever need a loan in the following 7 years, but it can actually affect your future job offers. "Affect" meaning your application being rejected for having such a poor credit score.

Now, for someone already in a bad position, the settlement is a good move, even when the person will still have to deal with no loans, no refinancing, no credit cards, and keeping the same job for years.

However, my goal has always been avoiding a bad position. Using the credit to my advantage, not only for good rates on loans, but for business, since the banks also use your "personal" credit score to lend money to your new company. I also used "creative ways" of solving financial challenges, like planning for less taxes, or managing my money.

I appreciate the examples you posted, since I like to learn something new everyday.

Post ID: @5fjr+1mtz062B Very true. They are not. Many in life are born with calculators for brains. It's only the computer, and super computer people that actually make something of themselves. The others are typically taken advantage of, and the word has billions of them.

@5fds+1mtz062B. Some people are ethical and pay their debts. They just aren't as smart as you, I guess.

Post ID: @4vyh+1mtz062B Many people easily fall for it. As is life.

In my three point explanation about finance, I was showing the creative ways to make money dance, which can be used in both a general sense, as well as be highly situational. It's not the "activity" that matters, it's the creativity of the deal for that particular event that matters - to improve your standing. So people attacked the activity I offered as an example to them.

I said I had dozens of examples, so here's another one. So far I haven't spoken as someone that hasn't walked the talk.

• XX,X-X dollars in credit card debt. Most people know, or may not know you will hold that debt for decades if you are paying the minimum. What they don't know, is the weight of that debt is holding your credit card score down significantly. Instead, since it's an unsecured debt, default on it for six months, take the hit to the credit score, let them discharge the debt, and sell it to a debt collector. Some entities don't discharge, but either way it's all the same. Unsecured debt, which means you can settle for pennies on the dollar, and there are no debt prisons within the US. Credit solution type businesses exist to negotiate remaining debts for a lower interest rate. This doesn't fix the issue, and it keeps you in the continuous cycle as before. Instead, default, and settle for pennies on the dollar with the institution.

Call the facility after six months, negotiate a "settled in full" payment, in writing, and discharge the debt. If they don't bend, tell them you will call them in a year with a lessor settlement amount. They'll bend. Your credit score will show "settled in full", and your credit score will instantly jump in points. The removal of the weight of debt, verses the settled in full, should improve your score. Now you are on a level playing field to move forward to repair your finances. You can achieve settlements in the range of 10% to 30% of the entire amount owed.

Note: After seven/eight years, the settled in full status falls off your credit report, even if it wasn't that bad to begin with. Any agreed discharge, is taxed as revenue gains, in which you will owe taxes on. Morality of this situation is your own, as all agreements you make, is you verses non-soul corporations entities. If you feel you should owe the debt in it's entirety, then pay it. If you feel that debt and numbers are conjured in existence, then learn to legally play their game, and use that system against them - legally. That remains your choice, but you need to learn to become the smarted person in the room.

Your financial intellect, and your ability to understand, is MUCH more important than you will EVER know. It will hinder you a debt slave, or, it will place you in a VERY financially enjoyable place. After all, it's all digits and numbers that reside on a ledger. If they go poof, then more can be created in their place.

@4ywe+1mtz062B dude! Troll alert!

Seriously folks! You're so gullible.

@3cpw+1mtz062B - I hope I never work with or for you. What an elitist statement. Your thought process is off. You are one of the reasons there is a good ol’ boys club and the friends and family group.

All day long I’d rather work with someone who has some grit and made it through college despite their family not having money. You can take the circle of frat boys and sorority sisters. I’d rather have authentic, hard working people in my life vs those who grew up with a silver spoon.

I agree. I've always thought that blue collar people shouldn't go to college. If your family can't afford to pay for university in full, then it isn't for you. My family has immense wealth and was able to pay for my tuition in full. Now I'm 35 and a director and the sky is the limit. My older brothers and sisters are surgeons or executives at their companies. Blue collar folks should go straight into the labor force. There are also great options for them to go to trade school and lead very rewarding lives. There is a shortage of truck drivers. College is definitely not the answer for those families. And we are certainly not going to eliminate anybody's debt.

@3gdz+1mtz062B not getting into student debt is another. As another poster mentioned, college may not always be necessary and certainly doesn't really further your prospects if you degree is in something useless like "[fill in the blank] studies".

Seems that a college degree serves the same purpose as a high school diploma did in the yesteryear and isn't a badge of any kind of educational achievement as it is a "bar" that the holder has the determination to complete what he/she started.

Eliminating student loan debt would go a long way to resolve this issue.

Also, not allowing individuals or corporations to buy homes as investments to be rented.

@3ear+1mtz062B While there is much sense in your comment, the number 3 example is not really a good case. It is more of a "one-off" situation. For over 14 years, the FEDs kept the rates artificially low. Many experts incorrectly thought that the FEDs would raise the rates slowly. Even now, some experts are betting that the FEDs will lower the rates at the end of the year.

Yes, I thought about cashing the equity on my home before the rates went up. However, HELOC rates were between 3-5% already, and there are other costs associated with it. Since my home is paid off, no chance of refinancing. So in the best case, I'd get now a 2% profit (that I'd have to pay 24% taxes on).

Now, taking money out of the house to play the stock market is a really bad idea. I have seen people lose their homes because of this. Taking money out to find a good CD/Treasure Bill in 2021, was a risky move. Many banks were receiving "free" money from the FEDs, and their CD rates were awful (0,01%), and many of their rates are still awful. I am glad you did well, but that's not something I would recommend.

The previous post is absolutely correct. But I think it needs to go a step further.

Consider purchasing a plot of land in a rural community and farming your own crops. You can do it with hand tools that require no gasoline. Just a lot of hard work that is well worth it in the end.

Learn to sew and begin making your own clothing and only go as far as your feet can carry you.

If you must go farther? Remember the original horse power? Consider investing in a good horse. It can help with the farming and also be dependable transportation.

The sooner you figure out that everything is a (legal) accounting trick, the better off you will be. The sooner you figure out how to manage money, and to make numbers dance, the better off you will be. Your financial intellect trumps all. It's not about just rate, or term, or total, it's about what makes the most sense. This applies to house shopping, car shopping, utilizing CC's in a respectable way, taking on debt, and even taking on school debt. It applies to your life balance sheet. Debt, is the the issue. It's the mismanagement of running the numbers that are usually the issue. Most people just don't know, or won't care to learn except through the school of hard knocks.

I could list one of dozens of scenarios, so let me give you just three:

1. Teach your kids young. Mom and Dad if they are smart enough, should have a great credit score. They should have their kids at a young age, add as additional on their credit cards. Instantly out of the gate, they come out having a score similar to yours. But, that's not enough. They also should have a job with a show of income, and be applying for their own credit card. The first should be ideally no annual fee, but if you need one with an annual fee - get it. It's the foot in the door, and it's off to the races if they manage their credit right. They'll likely never get denied again, and they're all set.

2. College. I taught a college student how to acquire a four year college degree for next to nothing, assuming you make an attempt to help pay your way while in school. Two years of community college can be paid for while working, up to 81 or so credit hours before transfer. Most community colleges have transfer programs into prestigious schools to finish the 4 year. With a balance of 40 or so credit hours, you may need access to a sizeable amount of cash that goes beyond what FAFSA offers - which is the yearly limitation. While it's true FAFSA offers better rates, they may not offer what is best for the students need. You need access to a sizeable amount of money to pay interest on, for use, while you are saving as much as you possibly can to pay off the loan within the next year or two. Renting the money, to pay for tuition. Interest only payments. Not, built in interesting and premiums spanning 15-20 years.

• Bonus - Most adult children have car payments. If you make numbers dance, you have a very affordable one for a respectable vehicle. A respectable college level vehicle with perhaps $125-$200 month payment. All part of teaching your kids balance.

• By saving up for one to two years while renting the use of college money through a lender, you've accumulated enough to pay off most of the loan. Instead, pay off the vehicle and free up the $125-$200 per month. Use the rest to pay on the loan, and then refinance that loan for a new term and payment through another lender. You will likely find the payment to be less than your car payment, with a term just barely above your car term now. When the kid goes full time, making SO much more cash, pay off the $5000-$10000 that remains if you want.

Four year degree, for next to nothing, paying just barely more than the money you've borrowed. OR, just pay those $200-$300 per month payments for 15-20 years. Grand total, 70k-100k in loan payments.

3. A few years ago interest rates on a home were dirt cheap. As low as 2.25% interest. If you had run the numbers, you could have cashed out refinance most of the equity in the home, and still kept the same payment going forward with a lower interest rate - and all the cash. Nothing new right? What is new, is that as the market moves forward, rates will only increase. Home valuations will decline in time, meaning unrealized equity goes poof, yet you still extracted the value for the same payment or less than before. Meanwhile, CD's are paying 4-5% now, essentially making all that money you've extracted, earn you money more than the interest on the new loan. So long as you aren't squandering it, it's an easy win.

• YOU control the duration of payoff by holding the cash.
• YOU can use that value to increase value more than the low interest rate.
• YOU control the money, and it's never outside of your control. If the equity goes poof, you still got the cash. If something magically happened and the bank claimed your home, you still have cash to start again, perhaps pay cash for a new home, credit be darned.

Learn about finance, and you control your world. That ability tied with a great credit score will do more wonders for you, than if you even made more are your job, but were financially ignorant.

College is not necessary to be successful. Plenty of skilled trades jobs. Yes you need to put in the hard work and spend time learning a skill. Many times people have unrealistic expectations and are not willing to delay gratification. For the first 5 years of my working career I rented a basement apartment (such a dump), drove a $500 beater car and brown bagged it. I saved like a fiend for 5 long years and was able to pay cash for a nice starter home and upgrade to a nicer used car. It’s all on what your priorities are.

It’s all relative. I remember making $3 an hour as a cashier. Grandkids make $15-$20 an hour as a cashier. Thats a 5X->7X increase in salary. My dad’s highest salary was 32K as an electrician. The grandkids make that much as a cashier today.

I think the kid is right. I was there for stagflation. As tough as it was, the cost of living was so much lower. My grandparents' house cost 13 grand in 1970. My parents' house cost 70 grand in the 90s. Families with one breadwinner could survive comfortably. That's all gone now. What is the average home price in Michigan now? It has to be approaching 300 grand. And that includes the dumps in inner cities and rural areas. Decent apartments rent for well over 1000 dollars per month. Labor jobs are vanishing compared to the 70s and 80s. And wages have remained fairly flat when compared to the cost of living. If young people want to make real money, they need college. Which puts them in a losing cycle. This always gets turned into a political thing, but it impacts both sides equally. Look in the average trailer park and you'll see things are just like in the average ghetto. Most kids today don't stand a chance.

@2cch - if you have to live on credit cards to get by you're doing something wrong. You're not the first generation, nor will you be the last, to have diddly squat as you start out your employment years. Late Boomers/early Gen X came of age during the height of stagflation where jobs were scarce, inflation was outrageous, and credit cards weren't available like candy as they are now. The earlier portion of the Greatest Generation came of age into the Great Depression, and the latter portion grew up with it. They made do or did without, and thank goodness too since none of us would be here if they didn't.

Us Gen Z have to stay. We are buried in student loan debt. We pay so much money in rent that we are unable to save for a downpayment on a home. We will never own homes. And we have to live on credit cards so the mountain of debt keeps getting bigger.

2oku coding is not the path for most people. There are coders and then there are coders. Most people who code shouldn’t be allowed to code professionally. Most of the coders at Ford and Ford Credit now-a-days are of the variety that a code generator would produce far better code. Even the heralded Center of Excellences, i.e. Java Center of Excellence are a joke. Many people who have left Ford thinking they were amaze-ball coders because they were comparing themselves to their Ford peers have realized that they are not amaze-ball coders compared to the wider world of coders. It is a humbling and hard lesson to learn, especially if you have spent 20-30 years in a delusional state.

Take home lesson: if you are going to work at Ford make it a short term gig.

"Learn to Code."

:-]

2vhd+1mtz062B sorry bud, but you done been trolled.

I never expected to get a pension when I entered the work force in 1975.

I saved and started an IRA in 1983 while in Air Force tech school making about $535 a month. Over the next 40+ years I put away as much as I could without going without. I saved and bought a house, had a family and didn't buy a new car until I was 50 at which point, I planned to pay it off in 2 years. I only used my credit card when I could pay it off quickly or for emergencies.

I took the buyout from Ford after working there for 16 years. I had many jobs over the years including a couple of contract positions before getting hired into Ford in my middle 40's. I went through a layoff off also.

I am living off my IRA's and other investments and don't plan on collecting SS until 65 or 66. At this point I can live very nicely off my investments.

My advice is put retirement saving first and don't live beyond your means. Also, find a good investment firm to work with.

Yus gonna destroy companies likes yus destroyed detroit, San Francisco etc
Have at it we will take our business and money elsewhere and create new companies.
Just like we moved to the suburbs and support Elon.
Knock yourselves out, sugar daddy is exiting the big oval room next year.

Y'all white boys don't like it, but this here is the new way. All the big big companies run like this now.

If they DON'T have an acceptable amount of minorities in leadership roles we gonna call them out on they racism and cancel them quick! And the same goes for GSR levels - we minoritiea best be getting top level projects with high visibility and cross function interaction. If not, we gonna call them out on they racism and cancel them quick!

Y'all never had a problem when it was the blacks struggling. But now that it's the whites struggling you expect to see some change? No way.

Maybe you should take a knee during the national anthem at the next NASCAR race and bring some attention to your cause.

1. No one of your level does not already earn a respectable income.
2. How much do you want to earn in life? Yes it's a number, but at some point, your earnings, earn enough for a very comfortable life. More money, doesn't make your life any more comfortable, especially when you have enough of it. It's just an add on.
3. It sounds like your barrier, is your mental limitation.

If you are regretful, you are living in the past.
If you are agitated, you are living in the future.
If you are content, you are living in the present.

I'm advancing my way into a leadership position that pays significantly more than I make today. It's a noticeable 25k-50k above my current six figure income. I don't want it nor need it, I will decline it at every opportunity. It's not worth my time, effort, and sanity. It's not worth upheaval to my life work balance. The higher you go up on that management rung, the more wedding rings you will not see on fingers. It's not accidental nor a coincidence.

Balance in life, balance in work. That's what you seek.

@OP There are plenty of good pieces of advice here, and it is pretty simple: Don't beat yourself up, and don't sell your soul for an LL position.

OP - if you want to advance, figure out what it is those power advancing have as traits or are doing. If you can, do the same, if you can't then move on if advancing is your goal.

Or you can step back and decide if you really want to advance up the ladder (past GSR) here. After many years here it's clear to me that one you hit LL ranks you get more work heaped on you with the expectation to work more hours and more butts you have to kiss to keep advancing. Honestly I can see those positions being worth holding without a good pension at the end. The stress vs immediate compensation just isn't worth it.

@utb+1mtz062B. You've got to be kidding. Noone is excited to work on Model E projects. It is a paycheck en route to something better. Data, services, electric motors - how tedious.
Not to mention the realization that the company that put America on wheels is participating in the destruction of poor and middle class mobility.

Nobody I know is quiet quitting in Model e. It is not hard to be excited about the new hi-tech data/digital-based services and software we work on, and how we will take the market head on. See the big news about Blue Cruise this week? Just like that.

Ford+ has rejuvenated Model e employees for sure. If you feel blue about the dead end that Ford Blue is moving towards (excuse the pun), you'd be wise to keep an eye on the internal job openings at Model e.

Ford is quiet quitting the ICE business. Just doing the bare minimum to get by.

@OP I’ve been there twice in my working career

Here is what I had to learn twice (yes I am a slow learner).

• money is the easy part
• you are not your job
• do what you enjoy
• leave before you are perpetually miserable, future employers can smell the misery

The first time I was miserable at work, insane deadlines and office politics although the work was interesting and challenging. One day I just quit and we took a year off to travel the country in an old RV.
After a year we knew we should find jobs (we were closing in on 40). So I looked for work that was technically challenging but did not have insane deadlines. The salary was initially half my previous salary. Within 5 years I was back to my previous salary. All was great until the group demographic and culture changed. I no longer fit and the new regime clearly wanted me gone. I had convinced myself I needed to hold on until kids were out of college. Miserable again. I tried applying for other jobs, failed at it. I hung on for far too long. Eventually I quit, took a 6 month walk about got refreshed and a contract position fell into my lap.

Since then I switch jobs as soon as a whiff of misery presents itself. It has been surprisingly easy. If you are competent, hard working and upbeat companies will want you. You may have to sacrifice on salary at times. But in the end it all works out.

You are NOT this company and it NOT you. You need to keep in mind that you work for an end result and not for the supposed greater glory of the company. Get your perspective right and you'll begin to see the opportunities here or elsewhere.

The mindset you're working under was replaced a long time ago and you're doing yourself, nor anyone else, no favors by sacrificing yourself hanging on to an extinct idea of how to work. Do not look for justice or fairness in the workplace. You will bankrupt yourself and loved ones. You already seem scared and bitter as it is. I'm not dogging as I was the same as you until got burned- I'm a slow learner and want spare you the same.
Good luck

afy+1mtz062B are you small an wear a white suit and point up in the sky and yell "THE PLANE BOSS THE PLANE"?
S-x or color have nothing to do with success. it has to do with competent.
I saw plenty of talented minorities leave or retire because they were not YES MEN or bobbleheads.
So Keep brown nosing BF Bu-t. That seems to be the only thing you can do. Your record of accomplishments is EMPTY.

Conway restructure worked? What are you smoking? Organizations are in disarray. 9 months after the last layoff, there is still work not being done from entire organizations that were let go. Ship is heading towards the rocks and nobody at the helm. Constant churn of direction from programs. So many people (think LCC’s) that don’t have a clue how to do their job. They just blindly ankle bite the people left doing the actual work without even understanding the how and why of what they are asking. Programs still blindly working in silos and adding complexity. Unreal. I for one hope the ship gets righted but to say we are on the right course is insane. We can barely launch ICE programs anymore. We now have programs with EPT1, EPT2 and EPT3 builds. Pretty soon we will have 9-10 pre production builds before MP1.

One Word: Leadership Inspiration. How can you not see the historic transformation in this iconic company. We are profitable. On target. On point with our future plan. DEI is a strong incentive and producer of results. Project Conway was a complete success. The latest re-org will produce results. Promotions are frequent and value added. We are hiring and strengthening North America with external leadership. Just like a start-up , join and support our leadership. You will be rewarded.

Some days I wake up and I just want to get in my car and drive somewhere

Hope it's not a Ford.