I used to think that I wasn't doing enough to add value here, so I started giving even more of myself, but in the meantime, I realized that those who put in much less effort get promoted. I wonder if it's worth trying anymore or perhaps it's wiser to go somewhere else?
29 replies (most recent on top)
@6emh+1n0VuW2U Ford IT is indeed large in size. In totality mostly lumbering bureaucratic and ineffective.
One example for years anyone who suggest and insist on nice clean intuitive easy button type interfaces for vehicle screens were ostracized. Feature creep, bloat and complexity are necessary to justify the staffing levels.
All the customers want is an easy button in their EV that says Charge Here and a timer that says start charging at this time. But instead they have to “register” the location to the app; wait 24 hours for the batch cycle to run and update Ford database; then go back into the app trundle thru screens and set a start time. Yeah buddy super while on vaca and spending a night or two in each location.
Now what do you think happens to IT team members who point these things out early in design? Sm--k-stay in your lane.
It’s not that there aren’t clever employees who could develop exactly what customer want. It’s that leadership needs to build and preserve silos for their own career ambitions so their voices are silenced.
@5fmd+1n0VuW2U - Ford IT is big, there are pockets of competence, and there are pockets of waste. Kyndryl (formerly IBM) has a nice contract with Ford.
Why do you suppose this forum is such a stronghold of angry conservative types?
IT pretty good? Naw. We have 4 FnF women who are totally incompetent who have been in the department for over 20 years. It was common knowledge that absolutely no work should ever be given to any of them as they would cause outages. One of the women caused a 24 hour plant outage when a new LL6 gave her a task as she was the senior employee. The LL5 and above blamed the outage on IBM.
Now those 20+ long term GSR8s are now all LL6 in our department. Yes our LL5 who was friends with these 4 (and of the same caliber), Fired all of the competent LL6 (2 white males, 2 Asian males, 1 white female), then promoted the 4 incompetent females (2 white, 2 black, plus 1 relative of another LL). Since all involved were over 55 and all had pensions, we can’t see why HR would direct this action. It had to be a threat elimination move by the LL5.
As you can imagine it is a total disaster. People who were before protecting Ford from the actions of the incompetents are now just sitting back with a bucket of popcorn and watching the show. Outages have increased, and are routinely blamed on IBM, Broadcom, BMC, and Kyndryl. It is just a matter of time before the whole department is outsourced to Kyndryl. You better believe that Kyndryl knows which few GSRs are competent and will make hiring and firing decisions accordingly. Something Ford is incapable/unwilling to do.
@5ycb+1n0VuW2U - I don't see this in IT. Perhaps in other orgs, but IT is pretty good.
I used to be a member of the PDC 4 when it was still operational. It is relatively easy to get promoted to GSR 8 if you work hard and deliver. Getting promoted to LL6 is much harder. Hard work and talent will not get you promoted to LL6. Ford traditionally only keeps 5% of the GSR 8 on a “next up” or ”key talent” list for potential consideration. Then they only select approximately 60% of those candidates. That means that 3% of the GSR 8 pool get promoted. The remaining stay on the list for a little over a year and get cycled off. The ones who get promoted have support of their LL5 to LL3. The other key criteria are that every LL5 and above selected for promotion must be reviewed and approved by the head of DEI. If the candidate is not a DEI individual the person / organization must defend why a DEI individual was not selected. This results in trading. You can promote one white male to LL4, if down the chain they promote a LL6 DEI candidate to back file the open LL5, then promote a DEI GSR 8 to back fill the open LL6 position. It’s a numbers game used by leaders to reach their DEI objectives. In the end after reaching GSR 8, 97% of Ford employees careers have maxed out. If you like your job and the pay, stay. If you want to move up in your career you probably need to leave to get your next promotion. Good luck
Any LL6 can fill in the online forms to get their GSRs bumped up the GSR levels. The LL6 needs to ask around first and find the current squeal point for the raise increase. One year it was 4.9%, another year 5.4%. As long as your form had that # or less it sailed thru HR. Less than ideal % but that put them in lower quartile in the next band, so they could get larger yearly increases going forward.
There is no rule about # of years. I promoted first year FCGs, I promoted some GSRs every year until they hit GSR8.
Now the LL5 must approve the form and most do. I had one a-sh-t LL5 who would not approve promotion forms. He never had a good reason, he was just a power tripping Richard. Thankfully only had to deal with him for 2 years. It’s not like you can tell your GSRs, yeah you deserve a promotion but the a-sh-t LL5 won’t sign the promotion form.
I was SIRP'ed as an LL6 last August, but I was able to get one of my long standing employees a bump from GSR 7 to 8. I did not have to jump through hoops to do that, my LL4 was onboard with my promotion request. My engineer is still employed at Ford and calls me to this day.
Getting from an LL6 to an LL5 is a different story, you need active support no matter how well you do in your job. Busted my bu-t for years taking on difficult assignments and delivering. Took me 15 years in my career to realize it was not going to happen. I did not have support where it mattered, got decent pay increases and TA's, but not the LL5.
I thought you get gsr 8 after 3yrs and you were moved up. Maybe your boss don’t like you or you are the targeted (perceived lazy but lazy normal lazy def is productive at ford were talking real lazy) one in the group.
"When I asked for a promotion from GSR7 to 8, I was told "if it's possible, we will make it happen."
It depends on what kind of "leader" you have
About 10 years ago I busted my a-s because I saw others on my team get their 8 so I thought I could step up and get recognized.
When the promotion didn't happen, I voice my displeasure and my 6 got indignant with me
Accused me of expecting a promotion just because and told me that's not the way it worked.
I flat out told him during my year end that I now understand it's not a performance review but a perception review and he agreed in a corporate speak way.
He proceeded to tell me if I wanted my 8 that he would help me and show me the way to do it the following year
I purposely cut back on what I had been doing and "slacked off" by doing the bare minimum but telling him what he wanted to hear and st-----g his ego
You'll never believe that the following year end he was pleased to tell me that he got me my eight because I earned it.
Pathetic.
I work hard to be the best at my role and take care of those I work with. I do the job and I look out for the people. I made promotion a point of discussion and planning with my LL6. Both he and my previous LL6 were both supportive and fair individuals. I'm more fortunate than most.
When I asked for a promotion from GSR7 to 8, I was told "if it's possible, we will make it happen." Phrases like "best hiring decision we've ever made" were uttered. Within a few months, I received my promotion along with a nice raise. As an 8, I already supervise 40 people (contractors).
Two months ago, with no prompting from me, I was asked to take Ford's leadership experience courses. Not sure where it will lead but I guess that's an "unofficial" path as someone else mentioned. Maybe I can guess that I'm on it.
I know it's not the same everywhere, and I know people have bad bosses and cr-ppy experiences. But you can only control what you do. I'm going to keep being who I am, have kindness and integrity in my work, and walk the path in front of me. If it's an official leadership role, so be it. Until then, thank God I truly enjoy what I do every day and the people I get to work with.
Careful what you wish for. A buddy of mine, who played hockey with me, was promoted from GSR to LL6 due to the November retirements. After, he never made it to any of our games (was too busy).
@OP if you are looking for a tech spec type promotion you just have to truly excel and make everyone’s life easier. I was an experienced hire, promoted to LL6 (tech spec) after two years. I did not ask for the promotion. It was a surprise. Four years later promoted to LL5 (tech spec), again a surprise. Now the down side. The leadership changed and “no worker bee should make more money than I do” from the new LL4. I was told I would be doing management crud immediately as no LL5 should be doing technical work. I resigned instead. Happily making more money elsewhere
Now if you have your eyes on management track, b-tt kissing and back-stabbing is the path forward at Ford. Also helps to have a lobotomy.
@1wbw+1n0VuW2U What are you smoking?
If you were hired after 2004, look elsewhere (at least it doesn't hurt). I was hired before 2004 so I'm pension eligible. It took 20 years before I was promoted.
Make heavy use of HROnline. Open many position descriptions, apply for a bunch of jobs and be relentless. You online actively is tracked. The more you use it the more you become a flight risk. If nothing happens in a year, ie no market rate adjustment to your pay or retention bonus, no unexpected career discussion with your manager, average pay increase and ratings, you then have your answer. Either jump ship or resign your self to a GSR level position for the rest of your career. Cut back your hours to increase your hourly pay. Just remember that those in the know and are one track via some formal / informal career advancement path KNOW that they are. Those who don’t know are NOT on an advancement path. Also, keep in mind that the LL6 position is the worst in the company. I was one for over 20 years and I know. I retired, found a position at another company and within 1 year was promoted and was responsible for an engineering department of over 160 individuals. Yet I was never good enough for beyond LL6 at Ford. You likely have it to be promoted. You just need to find where your more valuable than at Ford.
@1wbw+1n0VuW2U that's a lie
Ford promotes from within and hires from the outside the right people for the right jobs. Our leadership landscape proves this and if you looked deep enough, you will see it in your local organization.
When's the last time you've said. "That person is the right person, qualified and deserving of the promotion" ?
In 30 years I've seen non-in series promotions were rarely filled with people experienced for the position. They were ways to reward or pacify people on the next up list or friends. I got really tired of "training" the next new supervisor on what we did and how to do it. Meanwhile I applied for multiple supervisory positions within my specialty, which I could do with one hand tied behind my back, and once was told I wasn't getting an interview because I would outshine the candidate they wanted. Time and time again they chose a person to get them experience in the section so they could check the box and move on. Looking back I'm glad I didn't get promoted and prioritized having job I enjoyed. I banked my cash and lived within my means while they bought the mc Mansions, divorced, compromised their health, commuted long hours, played the politics and never saw their kids. Now I'm retired at 56, still happily married after 30 years, worried about nothing but how to spend my money and where to travel next. Ford is not the place to get the promotion you deserve.
Trying to get promoted never works. Be really good at your job and let the chips fall where they may.
Hard work and losing yourself to your job will not get you promoted. Don't chase position.
Its scary but...move around. If your great at your job, a supervisor doesn't want to lose you. If your a flight risk to a more interesting lateral position, that same supervisor wants to spread his favor and will make sure you remember your current position fondly.
Good Luck!
Not about hard work and all that bs. It’s being at the right place at the right time with some luck.
I was wondering the same thing myself. I was hoping a retired high level LL would give me the scoop. I still didn’t feel like I got an answer. I guess at the end of the day, there was my answer. Appropriately placed but no one has the ba--s to say it. I just keep getting this bs about we r going to try to get u there.
I’d rather know what is up so I can stop trying to get promoted and focus on what I’d like to do king term vs get the right notches in the belt to get to promotion.
Ya know?!
@OP, yes of course look outside. Doesn’t hurt. I think the problem now is money is tightening across all industries. You will encounter a lot of dead ends, but that is ok because you learn each time it happens. LinkedIn is about 95% BS. I have been looking the last few months. Nothing much out there now, but I continue my search. Best of luck, but just know your limits. Understand that the way the company operates did not get shaped over night. Do not become someone you can’t look in the mirror at and you will be just fine.
For me, I gave up trying to be promoted 20 years ago ;-)
You are either considered promotable or not, by your local management. There is a next up list. If you don't have someone looking out for you, you likely will not get promoted beyond a GSR8 or LL6. Pay attention to how fast favored candidates get promoted. If you have worked at Ford 10 years and are not seeing progress, try to see if you can get that next up outside. No harm in looking for opportunities.
Promotions are a funny thing. Open slot descriptions, budget management or lack there of, the various departments forecast for manpower, your visibility in critical projects... I've had to compete salary adjustments against building maintenance! Or trim one part of a budget just to open up an opportunity.
I've managed, hired, let go, fired and promoted a careers worth of technical people. Many times I'd advised those who were deserving in an environment where you can't do anything for them to keep their minds and options open. That's a sort of code speak for you've got a lot of potential so look at your comfort zone and manage your own career. That might take you to another employer.
Then there's time in grade with economic adjustments that simply scoot people into the next band and poof - promotion by just doing the job every day.
So I'm and old timer these days, my advice to anybody who is genuinely stalled is to put it out there to your manager that you want to advance. Find out what the opportunities are and if they don't fit at the moment maybe they will eventually. Or if there isn't a path, that's your fork in the road moment. I've lost a lot of great folks that came along at a time when budgets were locked, reductions were happening and you just couldn't make it happen for them. So with some sadness they left. I sincerely wished them well too. So it's complicated, but you are at the end of the day in charge of you. Best of luck to you!