Thread regarding General Motors layoffs

From what @pbc+1nSdLwnV said below, this just popped up:

https://www.cnn.com/2023/08/11/business/amazon-warns-employees-office/index.html

It is kind of ironic. Amazon was one of the first companies to implement "Quarterly Reviews". As of this year, GM is starting to do them.

I wouldn't be surprised if GM starts to do this, before or after they plan to force people back into the office is September. My group and I are not happy about it.

@2rhv+1nSdLwnV is Exactly right.

It is laughable that some believe RTO willingness will save their jobs. They could even get on their knees and blow but it won’t make a difference.

Understand and correctly identify the real threat to your way of life.

Illusionary Central Bank economy
Globalism

Do you know of an engineer who only works 40 hours a week?

And yes, since they're all salaried exempt, they don't get any extra money for the extra work.

So why did you bring those things up if you weren't relating them to unions somehow?

"So you're saying the union put the digital sculptors in a little room, or surrounded them with catty non-union coworkers? "

Is that what I wrote? SMH Re-read it.

"having workers work unpaid overtime or other abusive practices. If you were in management, I can see why that would be a problem for you."

Are you saying that your GM manager is abusive and forces you to work unpaid overtime? What group are you in? When are you going to get the union going at GM? Here are some instructions:
https://www.worker.gov/form-a-union/

So you're saying the union put the digital sculptors in a little room, or surrounded them with catty non-union coworkers?

The only "innovations" I've seen the union push back against are "cool management ideas" like having workers work unpaid overtime or other abusive practices.

If you were in management, I can see why that would be a problem for you.

Sounds more like companies try to punish people who join a union by passive aggressively creating a hostile work environment.

@5lsl+1nSdLwnV
"Can you explain how innovation, freedom, or autonomy would affected in any way by union membership?"

1. Innovation: Union discourages cooperation with management. Paperwork, hoops to jump through and lots of minutia must be accounted for with each incremental change (to discourage workers from actually working). I worked as a manager in this environment and saw this first-hand. People who were innovative were seen as a threat and it went against the union culture. Beyond that, any change was beaten down until it disappeared.

2. Freedom. Enjoy working from home? That will change real quick. Unionized digital sculptors already work at GM. They don't enjoy working from home. They work in a small room in an obscure building in Warren. You don't seem them casually walking around or chatting. The same thing exists at Stellantis, formerly FCA. Union designers. They watch each other like hawks and tattle-tale when people are away from their desks. Don't believe me. Ask around. If you think you won't be trapped at your desk while bitter, resentful people keep tabs on you...well...LOL okay

3. Autonomy: In a union environment, group-think is the only way. If you deviate, you are singled out and punished by the group. You have no autonomy. You follow the lemmings toward the cliff or else.

There are many other issues. "Seems like that was just pulled out of..." You are obviously ignorant and dismissive. Lean into that. I bet it works out well for you. I look forward to the engineering/design union. I will vote for it if the UAW ever has the guts to attempt to unionize engineering. They won't though. They aren't creative or motivated enough.

@5zpr+1nSdLwnV

Can you explain how innovation, freedom, or autonomy would affected in any way by union membership?

Seems like that was just pulled out of....

Unionized engineers won’t be good for innovation and beyond that, many will lose freedoms and autonomy they now take for granted.
Since I enjoy chaos, I’m hoping it will happen.
If you are UAW reading this, bring the vote forward. Think of all of the new dues you can collect! Bring it!

Off the top of my head, I think Boeing's engineers are represented by a union, and some of Google's engineers are as well.

There may be more, but often engineers are too egotistical to band together for the common good.

"I'm so smart I can make a better deal with the company on my own without trying to help those other slackers too."

There's a legal process for a group of people to get union representation. They have to vote.

You can't just join an existing union unless you're represented by them.

That being said, I'm sure the UAW would love to represent all GM employees.

Why can't engineers join the UAW?
It seems like a win-win situation.
Pay dues and feel like somebody has your back for once in what would be an even stronger union.

@3acg+1nSdLwnV
Mary will just move more work to Mexico.

Remote Shen and Raj for salaried can be a reality just as Juan, Pedro… are to the US hourly.

GM Factory Workers in Mexico Get a 25-Cent Raise to $3.25 an Hour

https://jalopnik.com/gm-factory-workers-in-mexico-get-a-25-cent-raise-to-3-1848932879#:~:text=After%20much%20negotiation%2C%20General%20Motors,and%20GMC%20Sierra%20are%20made.

https://uaw.org/uaw-auto-bargaining/generalmotors/

Not sure Paul and Mary took this into account:

https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2023/08/03/uaw-seeks-double-digit-pay-hikes-in-detroit-three-auto-contract-talks.html

I like the tax idea, but I'd like to apply it to H1B workers and make it high enough that an H1B worker costs twice as much as an American worker with the same skills and experience.

If companies are using the H1B program for its stated purpose of being able to hire people with rare and important skills that aren't available in the US, they can hire people with the skills they need. I'd even be OK with removing the visa cap. Hire as many as you want at double the going rate.

But if companies are using the H1B program to hire mediocre people cheap, that wouldn't work anymore. They'd cost twice as much.

And since companies play games and cheat, I'd dedicate the tax to enforcement, making sure the salary paid the H1B worker was really the going rate (which is supposed to be the current rule, but it isn't enforced and is usually far lower), and the tax was properly collected.

This would encourage companies to only hire H1Bs for jobs where there was really a shortage of skilled people, and it would encourage them to train Americans to take those jobs as soon as they could to cut their costs in half.

Any rumors? Lay off or buy out?

@2rwt+1nSdLwnV

We have a Congress and Supreme Court on the take so we'll never get worker protections if that reduces corporate profits by a nickel.

"We'll keep the American car plants open if you can build cars 10 times faster than the Mexican car plants because they cost a lot less and you need to prove your value"

"The problem isn't working from home or remote work, it's globalization.

No matter how good I am, I can't compete with someone who has an Indian cost of living.

He can live like a king on 10k US dollars per year in Bangalore, but if I made 10k a year I'd be homeless.

Even if I were the Ultimate Worker, the company could hire 10 Indians for my salary, and I can't do the work of 10 people to compete.

It's a losing game for US workers to compete with Third World salaries. Lowest cost wins."

You are getting shived from behind. Those countries did not have the science/technology to compete. You can thank your privileged classes at the universities, the government, and the ceo/boards who gave them that. You know the classes that have a permanent job (or wealthy) for life no matter how they perform.
They ended you for the profit coming from cheap bound labor.

So if Raj makes 10k in India, the tax would be 90k to match your 100k US salary?

Companies would never allow that law.

It's all about cheap labor and squeezing everything they can out of employees.

The problem isn't working from home or remote work, it's globalization.

No matter how good I am, I can't compete with someone who has an Indian cost of living.

He can live like a king on 10k US dollars per year in Bangalore, but if I made 10k a year I'd be homeless.

Even if I were the Ultimate Worker, the company could hire 10 Indians for my salary, and I can't do the work of 10 people to compete.

It's a losing game for US workers to compete with Third World salaries. Lowest cost wins.

They need to tax companies who hire overseas workers to make "salary + tax" the same globally so workers really are competing with each other on work quality and not cost.

@2xql+1nSdLwnV

Shen, Raj, and Jim are a competitive threat. You need to do everything you can to show that you are more valuable. That's the truth. That's where we are in 2023. They make much less than you. So if you are providing equal value (or less) in a virtual environment, you get cut.

As you stated, the virtual arrangement is already being used. GM can literally say, "you take a 25% pay cut or else" after Labor Day and you won't have a leg to stand on. Shen, Raj, and Jim make much less and are equal to you.

Do you see now how WFH is dangerous and how it levels the playing field?

"Cutting long term investment for short term shareholder gains. "
The importance of wall street has gotten way out of hand.
Plus some of the players have gotten too big where they can dictate the market.

Except when I'm in the office, Shen, Raj, and Jim are also on the team in their home locations and all our meetings are on the computer, so business is exactly the same as if I were WFH, except now I've got a commute.

In all the time I've been at GM, I've never had a team where everyone was in my office.

So I don't see how I have more job security if everything we do is already spread around the world. Even before covid where you were didn't matter when making teams.

Like it or not, WFH levels the playing field in ways that can ruin your life. GM can easily replace you with a guy in another State or county for a fraction of your salary if the job is fully remote. You are not special and they literally don’t care if it’s you, Shen, Raj or Jim in Ohio. As long as the work gets done.
So be careful what you wish for. RTO su-ks but it’s a form of some job security FWIW.

Unfortunately, they know they can get away with a 5-day RTO policy. Where else are people going to go? Ford? Detroit has always been a one-industry town and it's not like there's an abundance of opportunities in the area. If you want 100% remote, you're probably competing with 500+ applicants for every role.

"A staggering 76% of employees stand ready to jump ship if their companies decide to pull the plug on flexible work schedules, according to the Greenhouse report."

It turns out that flexibility (aka that "work life balance") is more important than pay. People like freedom. Go figure. So when our management relentlessly throws the RTO gauntlet down, they are likely well aware that it will cause attrition and misery. It might be part of the staff reduction plan. "Everyone in!" becomes "many of you, out!"

Source:
We’re now finding out the damaging results of the mandated return to the office–and it’s worse than we thought
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/now-finding-damaging-results-mandated-095555463.html

Cutting long term investment for short term shareholder gains. So frustrating! The opposite of what would really be good for everyone.

It sounds pretty believable to me.

@pbc+1nSdLwnV, your girlfriend even knows what are they considering? Please don't mislead people.

America has record inflation with high interest rates. Imagine what a pay cut will do to your budget while you are putting more miles on your car, buying more gasoline and lunches. Add day care, dry cleaning, after work house chores, etc.
All the “work appropriately” and “work life balance” rhetoric was complete BS. All our lives are about to become much more miserable. Enjoy the next month before your new, “new normal” begins. Office politics, pettiness, gossip, favoritism, etc etc. pu-e

I’m interested in seeing how Mary and the “everybody in” gang roll out 20-25% payouts while GM is making record profits.

“Help us stay competitive by taking a pay cut” is not going to cut it. They are going to set themselves up for an epic failure. Who’s going to “be bold” while making far less salary while doing the work of 2-3 people? They can track us like animals and do 4 reviews a year to scare us but they are going to get substandard performance from demoralized workers. It’s that simple. The endgame is the complete opposite of being competitive.

Party’s over folks.

Sounds like you have a month or two to job hunt before it starts if you're worried.

Is it too late to start a white collar union?

So they lied when they said enough people took the VSP that there was no need for an ISP.

And they lied when they said the Quick Connect was just to touch base, they weren't keeping records, and no one would be fired.

How can we trust anything they ever tell us?

I knew I should have taken the VSP!

A carrot that big says they're desperate to cut headcount, which means a much bigger stick is coming later.