Heard rumour of layoffs from downstream and chemical. Does anyone here know the timing, or the number of layoffs?
11 replies (most recent on top)
@3hrc+19lISzd3
You need to understand that this is not the USSR. These structural changes are all part of cost reduction process so that oil industry will thrive. And sometimes it means taking one for the team!
They will help in lowering costs and reducing impediments for the company to improve productivity, reducing taxes and CPP overhead on the company so that we can have a strong oil company here in Alberta. Imperial has been falling behind because of uncompetitive compensation practices. Please don't be like the now defunct CAW which drove the Canadian auto industry into the ground.
Did you hear Shell is cutting production at it refineries and will shut half of them down in the coming years leading to so many job losses.
You still have a job, it gives you time to move to something else where things are a little better. You know field operations is also always looking for good people and they share your vision of locals first approach, you would fit right in. You could even end up becoming the foreman or something in no time, operations is a really nice secure job, overtime and salary is great with fantastic pension, you get fixed shift schedule without the need to stay late without payment and without the whole ranking nonsense of the MPT. I would suggest networking and finding site contacts at Kearl and Cold Lake to see if there room. I know of many people who moved to Cold Lake, they love the lake and the environment, the fishing and the low cost living, and the small town is great for raising a family, very short commute times too unlike QP. They even have a star bucks.
Or you can check out one of the local EPC which get business from mid sized operators and help them out compete the global EPCs like Jacobs etc, your talent would definitely be in great demand.
Do you remember when Rich Kruger said, any interference in corporate matters with NDP government policy would lead to unintended consequences, so stop interfering with corporate decisions, learn to be part of the transition, don't become emotional and see the management as the enemy, they are helping the company become strong and resilient in these economic conditions. Even Kenney and UCP understand that transition is necessary to save the oil companies and for this reason has stood with the oil company executives and management.
I also heard Exxon is hiring like crazy in foreign locations, perhaps interact with BTC or KLTC managers and let them know you are interested in the new jobs that are coming up abroad, Exxon is a very dynamic organization always on the lookout for hard working talent. Alberta is also thriving so look for other opportunities locally, Fort Mac, Cold Lake, Grand Prairie, Edson, Edmonton the possibilities are endless. Don't hold yourself back, laziness will not take you anywhere and hard work always takes you ahead. I don't know if you heard but the living costs in Fort Mac are way lower now compared to 6 years, real estate and rentals are also very cheap.
All the readers on this forum already have understood about you, your evil intention and your manipulative fake comments. Last month I heard that Imperial Management is observing this forum as some people are complaining to go to govt. as Imperial misused their CEWS (Canada Emergency Wage Subsidy) money. Instead of giving this fund to Canadian employee’s Imperial had used this money for management profit and stocks and for BTC employees. They will have to face the govt. audit. Wait and see.
You don’t have to lie by this statement “I am not fond of BTC but I frankly speaking I have resigned to the idea of offshoring, unlike you, I and many others have seen this before many times, nothing new. BTW, I had lost my job a few months ago just in case you wonder.” “India is also investing heavily into renewable and wants to electrify its fleet in 10-20 years.” You made this comment at 3 am (Calgary’s local time). Yes, we understand that you have to work late night for BTC’s engagement and it’s a peak time for that location unless if you are not psychopath. Even in the weekend you can’t sleep if you are not used to Calgary’s office time.
By the way don’t spread rumour by telling partially true facts. Yes, some larger companies like Suncor awarded only IT contract (Help desk / Call centre similar like Telus online support) to overseas, not their core work. Shell upper management already acknowledged that their planned off shoring work didn’t succeeded (cheap labour can be dangerous) and they are working locally again. Calgary based Worley’s Senior Engineers / Managers are telling due to Mumbai’s engagement they are way more expensive than Calgary based local EPC’s. Due to that they are not getting any project from many operators. Please don’t take anything personally. Imperial management will feed you as long as you listen to their order no matter what it is. You don’t have to do additional BTC’s broker job.
@3nxk+19lISzd3
You seem new to these types of business changes, it had been happening across the board in ALL the sectors spearheaded by every MNC especially the American ones for almost 2 decades and employee unhappiness is nothing new either. Exxon was very late to this game because they were in good financial shape when oil was high, but the expensive acquisitions and oil price drop starting XTO, the Horn river gas failures, Kearl Lake costs, the investments in upstream in the last 2 years has weakened the financial position dramatically. BTC is merely a coping strategy with hopes that it might finally address the problems quickly by bringing in lot of low level cheap resources (MAYBE).
Suncor has ALREADY offshored significant portion of their work to Korea for the Fort Hills to "manage" their costs, they are not in the business of welfare if it interferes with their profit margins. Just like most people don't mind buying a Japanese, European or American car or a Chinese/ Korean phone, oil majors don't regret buying engineering from BTC/ KLTC/ Buenos Aires, whatever makes their lives easy and or profitable. Exxon/ Shell/ Chevron and every global corporation has their ranking process to reduce costs and distribute work where it costs them the least, eliminating employees on the basis of performance helps profits otherwise employees don't need ranking and NSI'd. The practices are not meant to cater to the locals an prevent them from "cheating the local people", they are purely business centric and involve trying various strategies to help their corporation, whether it be building Cold Lake or Kearl Lake plants, offshoring design work, bringing visa workers from China or India, send profits to Exxon in Houston or choosing to invest THEIR money in a place different from Canada be it Russia or Papua New Guinea or BTC/ KLTC. Albertan interests are secondary, it should be very obvious to any mature individual. Shell sold off all their oil sands assets because they can move their investment and employees wherever it suits them be it to BC for LNG investment or Asia or Europe, a corporation does not to cater to the interests of Albertan employees. That is true for every company, CNRL/ Cenovus/ Husky/ Chevron/ Irving/ Shell/ Exxon.
And anyone who wants policy protection should have voted NDP. NDP is very keen on protecting the employees. Fact is, companies have specific profit objective, and they will adapt any strategy, business, technological or political to reach those objectives. When Kenney was suggesting oil production cuts in Alberta in 2018, Imperial/ Husky/ Suncor were against it because it is not profitable for them. Whereas CNRL/ Cenovus and the smaller players liked it because it was helpful to their profit margins. That is how businesses operate, they are not charities. Expecting socialist protection when convenient for a province that predominantly votes UCP which has always been "corporation friendly" is not realistic, that is why Quebec and Ontario are left leaning because they want socialist employee friendly policies. If people don't like the UCP business friendly policies that help them make profit, then perhaps consider supporting Trudeau, he is not particularly keen on practices in India either and very keen on welfare of the people LOL.
Out of curiosity, did Suncor offshore their work to an engineering company that sent it to their BTC equivalent in India or does Suncor have its own BTC/ KLTC like centre there?
In the grand scheme of things, I think oil and Alberta will have a tough ride. If it wasn't for KSA and Russia spearheading 10 million barrels cut from the oil markets, oil would be a lot lower. The renewables are dropping in price very very rapidly and electric vehicle prices drop bit by bit every time a new battery and EV factory comes online, massive Chinese, Korean, American investment happening (India might join in too). Most people don't know but China has already electrified somewhere between 15-20% of its buses already, 400,000+. Shenzhen is all EV buses and 20,000+ taxis. And China intends to replace the majority of its public transport fleet with EV. KSA had already bought a Tesla stake which they sold last year and control the Lucid EV company, are already investing in Hydrogen and renewables. Texas has a massive amount of investment into renewables especially wind and Europe was always keen on renewables for a long time starting with Germany. Shell wants to be an electricity focused company now with LNG as a backup. India is also investing heavily into renewables and wants to electrify its fleet in 10-20 years. There is a company in Alberta that is trying to commercialize the extraction of Lithium from old oil wells as we speak. So the writing for oil might also be on the wall. Capitalism is a pretty cruel, as they used to say it eats its weak.
I am not fond of BTC but I frankly speaking I have resigned to the idea of offshoring, unlike you, I and many others have seen this before many times, nothing new. BTW, I had lost my job a few months ago just in case you wonder.
Suncor redone the work in Calgary, not in India. As they already p-ss-d off by that location’s work, their managers are not that unqualified like Imperial’s. By the way, that’s was not 1-2 $ M job. I understand who you are. When you live in Calgary, try to think for Calgary’s interest not from where you come from. All BTC’s engagement leads and Managers with some Imperial’s supervisors need to be fired first. They are cheating with local people. Or all of these guys should go to that location With their families for ever.
It’s taking 3 more time fixing BTC’s poor quality deliverables. At the end it’s wastage of time. Like IT, 5 mins job is taking 2 days to get a simple access. Calgary based Contractor / consultant are way cheaper in current environment and they can authorize / stamp their work. Management is pushing Senior folks in Calgary to authorize BTC’s poor work. Due to that some folks are leaving Imperial. My team is rejecting most of their work and it’s an pain in the a– to to deal with BTC due to their poor communication. Fresh grad / entry level employees are making fun about their hilarious communication. By the way mid size operator don’t give any project to Worley or Jacobs for their efficiency. So, don’t bring those EPC’s as an example how they get their job done in overseas. Due to overseas engagement, they are more expensive than local EPC’s.
@2yvy+19lISzd3
BTC is a fraction of cost for a Canadian employee, those people abroad get paid peanuts. If someone rejected some $1-2 million worth of work at Suncor, that is a very small number in the grand scheme, tactical at best and no different than having autonomous trucks at mining sites. The local Canadian work will become quality management and modifications to rejected work.
Suncor can afford to have it redone several times over and still come out cheaper, that is how big the labour cost discrepancy is. A significant portion of grunt work is not tightly regulated and will move abroad guaranteed, nothing new here, they aren't exactly building a nuke reactor.
All the big engineering houses, Jacobs/ Bantrel Bechtel etc have moved a significant chunk of their work abroad not just for Canada but in America and Europe too, the grunt work which is the majority of the volume of the work involved. The issues that you mention are too trivial from the perspective of the decision makers, they will want the high calibre senior staff not getting bogged down in detailed grunt work and rather focus on decision and direction, not trivial routine work. That means starting with the very junior staff, and then gradually moving up to the intermediate staff, those levels will be affected. Senior staff will probably not be affected since they will become more like directors and mentors of the lower level staff, local or abroad. There will be lot fewer new recruits, training abroad is lot cheaper.
BTC has been engaged for many disciplines already. Cold lake actually saw a lot of BTC people making "site visits" and then "assisting" the local staff in all disciplines, which is defacto training in slow motion to develop the skills and start moving small bits and pieces of work abroad. Initially it will accelerate the work and reduce the pressure on the high cost staff but also eliminate the need to replace personnel through resignations and retirements as well as need to hire new staff and train them which is a significant cost. The plan had been in motion for a long before, covid is just accelerating the process.
The writing has been on the wall, was just a matter of time.
Oil industries work and scope is not an IT or software related that you can offshore all work to cheap and low quality living location. Most of the work done by BTC are garbage and not Alberta standard. Don’t mix regulatory process plant work with softwares. For any incident, court will call you in Canada, they won’t send a notice to that cheap location. Suncor rejected couple of million dollars engineering work done in India due to poor quality, below standard and faulty design. Imperial incompetent leaders won’t understand that.
Work has always been getting offshored, since the year 2001 since it has been possible to save costs. That is why India became a major offshoring destination, that is why the Indian economy started growing rapidly and suddenly oil prices had a bull run especially in 2002-2008. Initially offshoring was focused in Electrical/ Computer/ Software engineering and technician functions but over the years it has spread to all areas. BPO, call centres, R&D etc have been offshored for a long time, it was less visible when the economy was not imploding during pre-covid, oil price crash of 2014, financial crisis of 2008-2009 but people were losing jobs throughout.
University of calgary actually cancelled their Computer Engineering program because of a decade of almost no students, no one was willing to destroy their livelihoods because the outcome was certain, offshoring had pretty much sent most of the work overseas.
There was a best selling book called "The world is flat" by Thomas Friedman which described this phenomena. In many ways, the 2008 financial crisis was the short term consequence of the offshoring and the corresponding lack of high quality job creation.
@djj+19lISzd3, You are right.
That's why they (Exxon) are brutally hiring in India, Malaysia, Argentina. They will pay 1/4 or 1/5th of high paying countries salaries and get garbage deliverables. Doesn't matter if that works or not. By that time ( 1 yr or 2 yrs) upper Management will take couple million dollars in their pocket. Yes, they will continue firing in Canada. It's their long term plan and it will be even easy to send all work to overseas in this (Trudeau/ Biden) era.
It doesn't matter if everyone is overload or not. Imperial target is to send all work to overseas. They are very adamant for that. They will continue firing till 2022. Management greed has ruined this Company. Management know that they are good for nothing. They only like to have more stocks, salary, benefit by firing locals and by sending all work to cheap location. Shameless supervisors always support upper management as they are incompetent and want to s— their bosses back.
It is probably just a rumour. I can’t imagine downstream shedding any more people. We are already so lean. Everyone is working more that one full time workload.