The Account SA is a non-technical role. Change my mind.
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Yeh if koons couldn’t save us no one can
@2qti+1eEWJLaO that’s why Mike left/was shown the door - he fought for us.
"Heard about Tim C at Chairman’s Club. He is a joke."
Yep heard that also from separate SA's who were there - he was apparently dismissive, rude and arrogant to the SA's and technical people and rather than spend time with the SA's getting to know them and their challenges, all he did was hobnob with the EVP's, brown-nosing. Nauseating.
And he is meant to be representing the technical field. Can you just imagine him with Chuck and the ELT??? Yes sir, no sir, three bags full sir. Jump - how high?? He would not utter a word to defend the interests of the technical community. Is it any wonder that the SA is lower than whale $h1t at Cisco?
@2zpc+1eEWJLaO pooling is a good thing in that case, right? SAs can focus on a specialization, and just cover the tech not the BS.
What’s the TC at Chairman’s Club story?
It is very hard keeping the technical chops strong. You have to pick a architecture and just stay with it. Some change over time but the base knowledge stays the same (UCS, R/S). SE/SAs that come from customers are much stronger overall than those from the CSAP in general. Those SAs have worked real problems, seen that a white paper doesn't fit every situation. Those guys are tend to jump in with customers..even come onsite to work thru changes at times. It is a rare CSAP SE that comes onsite to help a customer.
ONE. CCIE and Devnet certified SA here. I regularly spend half my week sorting out TAC and licensing issues and not selling the value of technology and programmability which is what I am meant to be doing. Without being arrogant, surely less expensive admin type of people should be doing that work? Cisco SA has become AM admin assistant.
TWO. The role has changed so much that we do not own the room any more like we used to when we could focus on tech, like a competitive SA can from PA, AWS etc who only has to focus on their area. Cisco SA has to try and do it all, which is increasingly hard to learn when the points raised in ONE eat all your time. Chuck moved Cisco to a licensing and software revenue company without enough on-the-ground resources to enable that and thrown it at the account team.
This is not sustainable for much longer and I think this is the reason for these SA pooling rumours. Technical skills being watered down and becoming thinner and thinner and it is causing SA's and other technical people to leave Cisco. At this rate, Cisco SA will eventually become unemployable elsewhere since so much of what we have to do is BS admin work and not transferable to other tech companies. My 2c.
Heard about Tim C at Chairman’s Club. He is a joke.
@1bfa+1eEWJLaO yes CSAP is really more of a management training program, where they get a couple of years in the trenches to somewhat understand what their future reports do.
@1xoz+1eEWJLaO - Good point. The chops gained from customer experience is invaluable. And I've noticed those Junior SEs who come from customer backgrounds (and not straight out of college) do better. That CSAP program does well but you simply can't make-up the knowledge gained from working as a customer.
@1xde+1eEWJLaO Agreed except that Cisco is hiring kids right out of college. Hiring people with experience/from customers goes a long way towards what you describe. And customers want SEs with real world experience.
As a technical overlay, I want to comment on the the "quality of the junior SEs" remark.
I agree Junior SEs are nowhere near as technical as they used to be; however, can you blame them?
Think about the topics an SE had to master in the 90s/00s vs today. As a Senior SE, ask yourself, "If I had to go back to the beginning of my career and learn everything I am responsible for NOW all at once, would I struggle to be effective and competent?"
Also, let's not be too quick to blame the Junior SEs. Keep in mind, learning and understanding concepts is a two-way street. The folks responsible for educating the System Engineers need to take some blame here. I've found one of the plagues of the Computer Networking industry, let alone Cisco, is that people are, bluntly put, really (and I mean REALLY) sh---y at explaining things.
I'm a smart person. I know I am. I am a long-time Technical Expert for Cisco Systems for crying out loud; however, I will often watch a training VoD, listen to a Technical Deep Dive, read a Certification Book, or analyze a note from a PM/TME and find myself going, "....uhh...what...that makes ZERO sense?!"
If I struggle, I can only image how hard it is for Junior SEs to comprehend this mess.
What we do at Cisco is difficult. Computer Networking is a hard science to master. Entering the industry today as an SE and learning the entire portfolio from scratch is extremely grueling and requires you to have exemplary levels of talent. Unless you're really somebody special, they're going to struggle. Period.
Who cares, if Cisco is a non-technical company anyway ?
The last Exec to really value SEs was Dedicoat but, even then, the cracks were showing. I liked Mike K but he was a weak leader. Tim C is just a yes-man and doing the SE community no favours at all (ask those at Chairman’s Club recently).
Even the brand has been devalued by the renaming as architects.
Cisco was built on the strength of its SEs, it’s a great shame to see how far we’ve fallen and to see colleagues being poached by competitors to do the job they always wanted to do for Cisco.
I used to be a customer. I bought many millions of dollars worth of kit because of my account SE, the AM just managed the transaction.
That said, there is another elephant in the room, which is the quality of the junior SEs and their interest in Cisco’s core products. Maybe I’m getting too old but they’re not like they used to be.
Now I’m on the inside I find it so frustrating.
Agree that it should be but is no longer. This is due to SEDs not taking care of SAs and standing up for them. SEDs have no accountability. The Systems Engineering leadership at all levels have let this happen. The “Cisco SE” used to be the Gold Standard in the industry but now is considered third rate. Guess who is making money. AMs, RMs, ODs, AVPs, SEDs, but not the SAs. The SAs do all the work but get paid the lowest. This is a result of poor engineering leadership.
It is now a licensing management role. New CCIE cert is licensing. Also handling customer grievances after TAC hasn't responded for 5 days, and product hasn't shipped for 6 months.
It should be but it isn’t any more.