https://youtu.be/UFrseCr8uPI?si=B0DUiTFeBWII3TTQ
43 replies (most recent on top)
Bingo!
“Debbie downer” is correct.
Also, SAS is less likely to provide an entry-level person with leading edge tech skills that make leaving easier. If they’re starting at $100K+, they are probably in R&D or possibly a pre-sales role. In either case, they likely have an advanced degree in a strong quantitative or engineering discipline. The same people starting at any successful publicly traded Company that includes equity in their compensation will likely make more overall once they vest in their stock grants.
Take it from someone who spent decades at SAS, started as a “senior associate“ (today’s title) and was promoted four times as an IC. Had to do some very tough negotiating multiple times to either get promoted or an upward salary adjustment and still found out upon exit that others with less experience were making more than I was.
That’s SAS. In my experience, 2/3 of management is simply looking to maintain the status quo and keep their butt in their current seat, because they know only a few advance in management roles. The longer they stay in management at SAS the stingier they get, because managers get rewarded for keeping salary costs as low as possible. This is the same reason why SAS has failed to significantly innovate in the past 25 years.
The very poor are different from you and me.
For poor people, it is onerous to obtain a valid ID. That’s why the law was passed, to discourage them from voting.
They need a Voter ID because they don’t have a driver’s license. So they must find a friend to drive, who can get off work. Or pay for their own transportation.
Then they must pay $10 or $20 or whatever their state charges for the ID.
They must also present a birth certificate, which they may not have. That costs an additional $15 or so.
For poor people, these are significant amounts of money -- which they need to spend on food. It’s no surprise that many of them choose to eat rather than vote.
There are almost zero recorded cases of Voter Fraud in the US. Almost no one is stupid enough to try it, because it’s so hard to hide. No one can expect so many fraudulent voters to keep the secret.
Instead, when people want to cheat, they stuff the ballot box. That has been done successfully in the US. It’s successful because only one person has to keep the secret.
The only reason for the Voter ID requirement is to discourage voting by poor people. That was its intent, and it’s working as designed.
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/16-states-made-it-harder-to-vote-this-year-but-26-made-it-easier/
"easy access to voting" .. hahaha .. It's SOOOOOOO hard and onerous to produce a valid ID! (And it hampers my party's ability to cheat ... wahhhhh wahhhhh.)
What does Gen Z really want?
Don't they want the same as any other generations? Things like:
all Americans have healthcare, affordable housing, tuition-free or subsidized tuition for higher education, universal childcare, easy access to voting, strong labor protections, living wages, renewal energy, freedom and justice for all?
I hope Gen Z can make a difference and change things for the better in America.
Each generation should strive to make things better and accomplish what previous generations couldn't or wouldn't.
Why? Maybe they had no better offers so they take what they can get for internships?
Or maybe they don't want to move away from this area if they're local college students.
I always look with wonder at interns who choose to work here. As in, I wonder why?
Debbie Downer
For a recent grad, SAS is a good place to start. You learn what it’s like to work at a large company, and you strengthen your resume.
After a few years, you can put that strengthened resume on the market, and explore your options.
@cjxf+1sspRsSE
Good for you. 6 figures for a recent college grad ain't bad, but also pretty common these days.
But here's the thing...don't expect it to increase very quickly. SAS are very stingy on pay rises unless you have significant leverage and that's rare at SAS now it's in decline.
Chasing the $ early in your career isn't always the best move. There's a high probability that your classmates who are may be on lower salaries than you are now, will overtake you in a couple of years.
I’m gen z and sas gave me the best salary of my options, 6 figures and recent college grad..
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/JgCtYUDVisc
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/LXsCCiAaFJ0
You are correct. Once in retirement, the amount saved combined with expected income (social security, side hustle, part time work or not) dictates how much you can spend in retirement. A larger number means more choices.
My beef is with those who simply say that you have to have X to retire. For example I have seen calculators (from a company that sells investments and investment services) that say that you must accumulate (preferably with that firm) enough to generate 80% of your current income in order to retire. I think that it is better to work from the bottom up - here is what I must spend plus what I elect to spend. In my personal case, my total comes to about 59% of my current working income. Working it that way means that I do not need to be stuck working longer to accumulate more to hit 80%. If I keep working, then I am choosing to trade my youngest/healthiest remaining years in exchange for more money (and assume that I will still healthy enough to enjoy that money later - or so that my heirs can spend it for me).
Someone recently shared an interesting calculator with me. Unlike most other calculators that just tell you the chance that you run out of money by a certain age, this one also takes into account the chance that you will still be around to spend it. We often overlook that important detail.
https://engaging-data.com/will-money-last-retire-early/
- It would be nice to believe that “Gen Z will be fine” because of their large inheritances. But most of them won’t...
As with every other generation, individuals in Gen (insert letter of choice) will be fine if they live by principles of disciplined lifestyle and saving/investing.
It makes no sense to me to use inheritance as measure of future success for a generation.
In the USA, the overwhelming number of millionaires are first-generation millionaires. 30% of that wealth is gone by the second generation, and 70% is gone by the third generation.
I reject the notion that personal financial failure is somebody else's fault (they paid me too little, or the company didn't grow enough, or I did not inherit as much as somebody else, or ... or... or...). Instead, I believe in personal accountability. But that's just me.
“ The amount that you saved for retirement is meaningless unless you also know your expenses”
The number is certainly not meaningless. For most people it is the number that is going to drive what acceptable expenses are.
If they accept the job and the salary then it pays enough
Certainly, fear sells. But it’s not fear-mongering to point out that wealth in the US is unevenly distributed. We all know this.
In America, the top 10% own about 70% of the wealth. The bottom 50% own less than 3%.
So when the older generations transfer their $84B of wealth, something like 3% of it will go to the bottom 50% of those 70M GenZers.
On average, that's $72,000 each -- not enough to pay for even one major medical event. This is not fear-mongering, just math.
It would be nice to believe that “Gen Z will be fine” because of their large inheritances. But most of them won’t.
https://www.cerulli.com/press-releases/cerulli-anticipates-84-trillion-in-wealth-transfers-through-2045
https://www.stlouisfed.org/institute-for-economic-equity/the-state-of-us-wealth-inequality
https://www.visualcapitalist.com/wealth-distribution-in-america/
Investment firms make money when people buy their investments and accumulate. It is therefore to their benefit that people keep working and buying investments for as long as possible. Expect these firms to promote numbers that encourage people to keep working.
Employers make money when they can hire for the lowest cost. It is therefore to their benefit for workers to think that they must keep their jobs for as long as possible. Expect the business community to promote numbers that encourage people to keep working.
Firms that sell financial products such as annuities make money when people work and buy products that keep them from running out of money. One tactic is to show the longest possible life expectancies. The best protection is to keep working and buy an annuity. Expect these firms to promote numbers that encourage people to keep working.
Politicians use tax dollars to buy votes. More income tax revenue means more power. Expect politicians to promote numbers that encourage people to keep working.
The fact is that fear sells. The amount that you saved for retirement is meaningless unless you also know your expenses. An X-dollar portfolio might be extravagant for one, but fall short for another.
This guy offers a perspective for you to consider.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EbEZ-g35WPI
The referenced statistics are not in conflict.
How many are in Gen Z? 70M? Then $84T transferred is a cool $1.2M each.
On average.
America is a highly polarized society. Billionaires’ children will inherit many multiples of $1.2M. Most GenZers will inherit little or nothing.
American Gen Zers, the oldest now entering their late 20s, have already accumulated substantial wealth through inheritance, investments, and entrepreneurship. Cerulli Associates estimates a seismic USD 84 trillion will transfer from baby boomer wealth in the USA to heirs, with Gen Z front and center.
https://www.henleyglobal.com/publications/usa-wealth-report-2024/gen-z-wealth-bo-m-usa#:~:text=American%20Gen%20Zers%2C%20the%20oldest,Gen%20Z%20front%20and%20center.
What is the wealth transfer from boomers?
With all baby boomers (born 1946 to 1964) becoming at least 65 by 2030 and owning 52.8% of the wealth in this country, researchers expect a great generational wealth transfer of up to $84 trillion in assets over the next 20 years. Mar 31, 2024
The references are flawed. Look more closely.
"That figure is obtained by looking at each retirement account."
No, it's not. In fact, about 40% of Boomers have no retirement accounts.
Read the links, and you'll see that neither Boomers nor Gen X have enough money to take care of themselves.
So Gen Z -- whether SAS employees or not -- cannot expect any "nice inheritances".
https://www.fool.com/retirement/2023/08/14/heres-what-the-average-baby-boomer-has-saved-for-r/
https://www.nasdaq.com/articles/retirement-outlook-2024:-less-than-half-of-boomers-have-adequate-savings-will-younger#
https://www.asppa.org/news/gen-xers-are-really-bad-retirement-savers-report
https://www.forbes.com/sites/dandoonan/2023/07/26/generation-x-on-the-brink-the-stark-reality-of-their-grim-retirement-outlook/?sh=47192b936fa6
@8sji+1sspRsSE
The average boomer has only about $200,000 saved for retirement
That figure is obtained by looking at each retirement account. It ignores the fact that people change jobs and create multiple 401k accounts and IRA accounts over time, and also create brokerage accounts, and CDs.
True, most Boomers at SAS can leave nice inheritances to their children.
However, @6jac+1sspRsSE’s statement was not about Boomers.
The statement was: “Gen Z will be fine.”
Most of Gen Z — whether or not they work at SAS — will not be fine.
Most of them will not get nice inheritances — because their parents have not saved and invested wisely.
Gen X parents have more time left than the Boomers — but so far they have not been better investors.
https://www.asppa.org/news/gen-xers-are-really-bad-retirement-savers-report
https://www.forbes.com/sites/dandoonan/2023/07/26/generation-x-on-the-brink-the-stark-reality-of-their-grim-retirement-outlook/?sh=47192b936fa6
Any boomer working at SAS or in tech sector for 25-30 years and only saved $200K for retirement by the time they're 60-65 years old only has themselves to blame.
That's why it's important to live within your means and save as much as you can stand as early as you can and throughout your working life.
Don't keep up with the Jones. As Dave Ramsey said "We buy things we don't need with money we don't have to impress people we don't like.". Don't fall into this trap as so many people do.
Personally, I think finance should be taught early and in high school so people can understand the power of compounding.
Even people working blue collar jobs can save and invest wisely. People need to be educated about saving and investing. Don't just live for today but save for tomorrow otherwise you will be relying on Social Security and it ain't much or may be cut or not be around in the future.
@8sji+1sspRsSE “Every” boomer on this particular thread has way more than 200k saved and will likely leave a sweet inheritances. I know I do and will.
Obviously depends on what you parents did for a living. I feel that more people leave decent inheritances now than my parents generation did. But that could be negatively coloured by personal experience.
The average boomer has only about $200,000 saved for retirement -- enough for a major medical expense, which we all eventually have. Social Security and Medicare cannot cover the shortfall.
Consequently, most GenZers will inherit little or nothing.
Unlike boomers, GenZ has time to save and invest wisely -- and they'll need to.
https://www.fool.com/retirement/2023/08/14/heres-what-the-average-baby-boomer-has-saved-for-r/
https://www.nasdaq.com/articles/retirement-outlook-2024:-less-than-half-of-boomers-have-adequate-savings-will-younger#
I think Gen Z will be fine. A lot of them will get nice inheritance from their Baby Boomers and Gen X parents if their parents save and invest wisely.
I agree with that last post....all us late GenX and Boomers just sitting here dreaming of a VRBP and hitting refresh!
Lots of negative reactions to that last post...which was perhaps a little ageist, although does have some truth to it, albeit grossly generalized.
Maybe it says something about the demographic profile of the people contributing to these discussions. Not many GenZers or Millenials around here, I suspect. They've moved on to better things...good for them.
It’s the Boomers that hastened SAS’ demise. There are sooooo many of the old guard who’ve mailed it in for years, without fear of getting laid off. If JG did anything wrong it was blind loyalty to employees not pulling their weight.
I know plenty of GenZ at SAS that should not try their luck elsewhere because frankly they aren’t very good.
With that said I also know some are middling and a handful who are exceptional.
Same as every other “gen” :).
Whatever they're paying the one in my group is way too MUCH I can tell you that.
No Gen Zer or Millennial in their right mind should stay at SAS. If you're at SAS, you should be actively looking for other opportunities and exit as soon as possible even if it means taking a pay cut.
If you're a Gen Xer, you should also be looking to exit ASAP unless you've built up enough $ to not to have to worry.
It's only the Boomers at SAS (assuming they have saved sensibly during their career), that could sensibly argue the case to ride it out for as long as possible.
If you're a Boomer at SAS, have been there a long time, and can't afford to retire...well you must have made some poor decisions or had some bad luck to be in that situation.
We can generalize about GenZ just as we can generalize about boomers. In every generation, some have a great work ethic, while others don’t.
Boomers at SAS are at or near retirement, so they'll hang on. For GenZ, the question is: should I stay or should I go?
ok boomer
Gen Z should not expect to make six-figure salary right out of school unless their majors were STEM and they have experience with internships before graduating with really good GPA from good schools. Bachelor's degrees are a dime a dozen. If they have MS then they are worth it with new and relevant advance skills coming out of school.
The rest of the mediocre Gen Z needs to live within their means. Have good work ethics. Previous generations all have to make do and work hard.
I see so many Gen Z spend their days doing you tube, spending lavishly on foods and vacations. Being youtubers may be fun but how long can the fun times last.
If Gen Z go to colleges and universities, study something that will make a decent living.
Study more STEM majors instead of liberal arts.
Retired now, but I was at sas ~15 years. In my experience as a IC R&D developer 130k is extreme but believable. As someone else said, vote with your feet. Your bank and retirement accounts will thank you.