And what do you do?
Senior Dev in r&d, 140ish
25 replies (most recent on top)
True, after the 2021 salary adjustments for top performers.
It isn't that uncommon for principal devs to make 205k+ at the Cary location. This is a fact.
The term “useless id--ts” is hyperbole in this context. For a long time SAS tolerated mediocrity. Many of these individuals were hired as far back as back as the 90s. The point about 2008 to 2021 is this saw the visible rise of “West Coast tech” paying highly-skilled developers/engineers very good money based on hard work and extremely valuable skills. SAS did not keep up. Progressively more and more of the top SAS Developers left and SAS was unable to attract the best and brightest from top schools because we simply did not pay enough.
R&D and many SAS vertical product groups had/has highly-skilled people. The point of my original post is that other mediocre to downright incompetent SAS employees consumed salary budget that in a true meritocracy, should’ve been distributed to the high performers. Apparently, the decline in revenue has caused SAS to wake up to this fact, and do something about it.
Some of the best performers put a limit on how hard/long they were willing to work because they just weren’t seeing corresponding compensation (why work 55 hours/week to really move things forward when you can work 42 and be a top performer by SAS standards). Meanwhile, less than competent employees spent 2.5 hours at the gym/lunch, made lots of excuses , “worked” as few hours as possible and failed to keep up with the even slow pace of technology and improvement at SAS.
I have no doubt this dynamic negatively impacted morale , overall competency/effectiveness in R&D and significantly contributed to the slow decline of the company that we witnessed today. This is a management problem first and foremost.
You forgot to ask location. Locality pay makes a big difference. Cary is the cheapest place to live compared to the major offices we used to maintain in NY, Surrey, Austin, DC, etc. all have higher costs of living.
People hired from 2008 - 2021...
Yes! I'm in the category of useless id--ts!
The bottom line is from 2008 to 2021, SAS tolerated and paid too many useless id--ts while under paying most of their top Principal and even distinguished Devs. Most of these top innovators/highly productive people have left the company for either retirement or a lot more money elsewhere. This constrains SAS’ ability to morph its complex proprietary software stack (especially Viya) into something that can grow revenue moving forward.
Irreplaceable talent gone for good. It would take even the smartest person years to learn what one of these individuals who has left knew about SAS internals and the best approaches to changing code.
I received a pitiful raise up on my promotion to Distinguished. My base was still less than 200K although close. This was prior to the 2021 adjustments for top performers. I think it varies, but it’s probably not as high as you might think.
What would a "Distinguish" make at SAS?
I have it on good authority as well as personal experience that many longer-term Principals (and these were the real deal not "in title only") suffered from salary compression due to younger folks being hired in with base salary, established on "10-20 years later" tech economics. These eventually were promoted to Principal and we're making as much as $15 K/year more (base) than their older counterparts due to having started at a higher base as Dev or Senior Dev than the long-term Principal Devs made at their initial promotion into the title.
A Senior Director told me that SAS used the bonus to help offset some of this.
Was in management before I left, in R&D.
As a first line I was right around $160k plus bonus.
Some of the other salaries I saw line up with what I see here. Many principal devs were in the 180-205 range. I did see one new phd hire coming in as sr associate (I think) at $120k base.
FWIW this was all before the Nov 2021 pay bump for many top performers.
Lower than average comp "back in the day" was justified because SAS had above and beyond compensatory benefits. The rest of the world caught up in that area long ago.
Anyone hanging on for retirement does not care about comp because most of their earning years are in the past. Those too young for retirement are the uneasy ones and the chatter about a sale or IPO is disconcerting to their ears. They won't ask for a raise for fear that a request like that could move their name to the layoff list for the next wave of lay offs. The point is: knowing the comps is nice, but it is hardly actionable knowledge at this point in the game.
Good luck to all!
My number included some Patent bonuses and I was a long-term Principal. No doubt explained our delta.
I can almost quote you word-for word, but you did a bit better.
Former Principal Developer in R&D. Left a few years back.
Salary + Bonus my last year: $190K
Definitely found out I was underpaid by industry standards given how “hard-core” my work ethic was for many years at SAS.
I was at SAS for decades and worked in an HR role for many years. I can guarantee you the 250k for senior level dev is not accurate. Not even close. If folks want an accurate assessment, I'd look at Glassdoor. While not 100%, it’s the best you will find publicly. The money at SAS is in the pre-sales/sales roles. These senior and principal roles easily clear 250k (base + bonus plan) which is why they are endangered species at SAS.
@1hos+1paDrUUdIf
If a Senior Dev is Is making 250K at SAS it’s not due to their technical skills and work productivity. Last I heard that range tops out at about 180K.
Former Principal Developer in R&D. Left a few years back.
Salary + Bonus my last year: $210K
Definitely found out I was underpaid by industry standards given how “hard-core” my work ethic was for many years at SAS.
"Sr dev 250k...fake news.
Others seem in range.
I have never seen ranges posted."
You've never seen them posted, but you apparently have seen them, if you're sure 250K is fake?
It would not surprise me at all that some top people with 25+ years are in that range.
Head of Thwarted Plans. 120ish
Sr dev 250k...fake news.
Others seem in range.
I have never seen ranges posted.
So there is one Sr dev at 140k and another at 250k. Is this fake news or does the salary band for a Sr dev position really span 100k?
Does SAS provide salary bands anywhere internally?
Sr. Dev $250ish
Sr Dev 160ish
Senior Dev in R&D, 170ish
Senior tech support 140ish
Unemployed. $0-ish.