https://www.labornotes.org/2023/09/scabs-deployed-gm-parts-distribution-centers
43 replies (most recent on top)
@7ifl+1oOK3Sw9
I'm an engineer at GM.
I want you to succeed but don't act like you are better for being in a union.
Don't pretend like you are better off and make better pay.
Don't pretend like you have more options than I do.
I'm sure you do excellent work. So do I. Can't we leave it at that?
Remember people like me when you are striking outside an engineering/design building.
We are not your enemy. We are all on the same team, working on the same products.
Good Union pay checks and benefits for excellent work says it all.
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/toxic-relationships/201812/how-spot-narcissist
"Other non-Union departments might tend to be envious."
No. I'm not a laborer. I use my mind to create new products. I am well compensated for this. My performance determines my pay, and I usually get the highest raise and bonus available because I do good work. I don't a collectivist, Marxist gang to negotiate a wage I didn't earn or deserve. I'm not envious of people in a union. I earn a very good wage and contrary to the hair-brained UAW goon's myth, my salary is SUBSTANTIALLY MORE. So is my bonus! And guess what? If GM does lay me off, I have options. I can make a great salary elsewhere, anywhere in the world because I have education, skills and experience. The UAW goon has NO transferable skills outside of menial labor. Why on earth would I envy that?
The highest dollar generally between Union employees and bottom salaried goes to Union employees. Why? Because they are extremely hard workers, and they know what their value is and are willing to negotiate for it. Other non-Union departments might tend to be envious. The Unions seem to welcome all but not all will step up to help themselves.
"My fair share" means that stockholders earn no dividends. It means that the managers, it coders, engineering, marketing, everyone all split the profits fairly. If that means we all make $50/hr so be it. But Mary makes the same as the maintenance crew. That's equity. That's everyone getting a fair share. But they all have to pay union dues, no matter what. Because we negotiated the equity.
Seriously define for me WFT "fair share" is? I'll wait....
You are paid a wage far beyond any reasonable measure for the job you actually perform. The company has to maintain a bank of temporary workers because 30% of you can't manage to even show up for work on any given day! Your work rules are so restrictive that it takes hours to resolve even the simplest dispute. And yet you want a "fair wage?" bwhaaaaaaa!!!!
Strikes are not to blame...big companies not paying union employees their fair share is to blame. Union employees will not put up with it like salary employees will. Stikes happen because companies choose to not distribute wealth evenly. Any lost sales during a strike originates with free choices a company may make.
When car shortages turn into higher prices, Americans will know that the strikes are to blame. When much higher labor costs translate into higher car prices, Americans will also blame the UAW.
The higher prices translate to lost sales and customers. Americans will find better deals on S Korean and Japanese cars and will enjoy higher quality. It’s a race to the bottom for the UAW. The only way to save the companies from bankruptcy will be to outsource labor. Enjoy.
If the UAW wants salaried workers to participate in the strike they're going to have to bring us into the union.
Passively saying "call this number" or "go to this discord channel" if you're interested in a union isn't going to cut it.
They need to be proactive, starting with education. Unions have never reached out to salaried workers, so all we hear is the propaganda from management about how terrible unions are. We only hear from one side.
A lot of salaried people have been brainwashed by management into shunning union protection and that puts us at the mercy of layoffs and office closings.
The UAW needs to educate us, organize us, and get a vote going, or we're going to be stuck doing what management tells us to do, even if that means crossing picket lines or working in part distribution centers. We don't have a choice.
The UAW can give us one.
I support the union and wouldn't cross a picket line if it were my choice but I'm not going to lose my job over it.
"Everyone had a fair chance to talk with their own bosses for alternate plans so they would not have to cross picket lines if they thought it was something they wished not to do."
Salaried workers aren't union and have no protections.
Salaried workers either have to do what the boss says or risk getting fired without being able to do anything about it.
Just read the news, many pieces and departments connected to GM are seeing or planning layoffs. After the strike as in history the pieces and parts suppliers to build vehicles etc. usually return to work. The news carried the approach of a possible strike coming a long distance out. Everyone had time in advance to prepare for it including any non-Union workers. Everyone had a fair chance to talk with their own bosses for alternate plans so they would not have to cross picket lines if they thought it was something they wished not to do.
"Pieces and departments connected can expect a work stoppage also, no matter if they themselves are Union or not"
Says who? Do you have a legal document to back that up?
If the engineering department joined, "the Union for Engineering Professionals" (a real union) and started picket your plant after a UAW agreement was made, how would that be received?
Are you going to cross the picket line without pay? At the risk of being fired for not showing up to work?
Before you answer this, do a tiny amount of research to find precedent. Be careful what you wish for.
A strike is a complete work stoppage until both sides agree. Pieces and departments connected can expect a work stoppage also, no matter if they themselves are Union or not.
How big and how long are UAW auto plant worker student loan payments ?
@3yxg+1oOK3Sw9
Basics:
Don't picket the engineering buildings away from your factory because these people aren't there to replace you. These people are your allies. They design car so they are ergonomically safer for you to build. Make nice with them. They are your friends.
Union jobs pay a lot more than others, not because their unskilled labor is valuable, but because they rely on communist collective tactics. Know that their actions will result in more plants being moved to Mexico. It's nothing to get upset about. It's just the way of nature when one entity is being bullied by another, they will act accordingly to avoid the bully.
Basics:
Do not cross picket lines of 2 squabbling parties else one or the other figures you have chosen a side or a view. Create a way around any picket line but yet gets to the place you are trying to go to. Be peaceful and mannerly about it even though others may not be to you.
Union jobs pay a lot more than low end management. Be o.k. with that fact. Union people tend to stand up for themselves and the squeaky oil always gets the grease. You did not squeak enough and got low pay and benefits as your reward. Be happy in choices you make and quit focusing on others who make more money than you. Degrading their education or the union they choose, only makes you appear uneducated. Stikes do not last forever but words do. Be friendly .
"Compare W-2's at the end of the year. Those who tell you how educated and smart they are....... are not. Remember that saying? "
You are correct. It is not cool to dismiss labor. But the people that do this are not the majority. Don't forget that. You aren't winning any points by saying that educated people are not smart.
Comparing W-2's - you aren't any better than the educated people because union gangster tactics get you a higher wage. Skilled trades make higher wages for the same reason college grads make higher wages. They are skilled. They are trained. They have experience. That makes them VALUABLE. People working unskilled jobs will always be undervalued because they are easily replaced and require little to no training.
If you were worth your salt, you wouldn't need the union. College grads have no issue making more without a union. Think about it.
@2sdj+1oOK3Sw9
"Everyone knows not to cross picket lines, yet everyone did not plan ahead."
When unions were respectable, they would picket outside their own factories and try to prevent scabs from working their jobs. Most people, including myself are on board with this and respect it.
THE UAW IS PICKETING SALARY EMPLOYEES AT OFFICES.
THESE ARE SALARY EMPLOYEES WHO DO NOT REPLACE FACTORY WORKERS.
THE UAW SHOULD ENJOY NO SYMPATHY OR RESPECT FOR DOING THIS.
I hope that clears things up for everyone interested. If you want to picket GM offices outside of your factory, I hope you fail because what you are doing is putting innocent people in danger and that is savagely irresponsible. When you do this, you lose all respect and support from non-union, non-management in the organization.
Bloomberg article today 9/29/23 "A Master's degree may not pay off with a higher salary". UAW workers can earn pay higher than college grads, but they do not brag about it. Some college grads like to degrade UAW workers though and say they have no education and deserve low pay and have no skills. This is not correct. Compare W-2's at the end of the year. Those who tell you how educated and smart they are....... are not. Remember that saying?
Non union such as management/engineering needs to push the company for off premises, safe, temporary workstations. Union workers have the guts to stand up for themselves as one can see by this UAW strike. Non union people tend to hunker down and allow themselves to be put in unfavorable positions and will not stand up for themselves.
Companies might choose to put people in negative situations and will choose the path that cost them the least,
Possible strike plans were coming months in advance, yet non union did nothing to protect their departments from any possible impacts. Everyone knows not to cross picket lines, yet everyone did not plan ahead.
U
Ain’t
Worthy
If you expect me to give up/endanger my livelihood to protect yours, you can at least answer my question [Post ID: @1vbq+1oOK3Sw9].
Also, if you want people to honor your strike, you better start being nice. That means not yelling at honest salary workers trying to get to work, not spitting on them, not obstructing traffic, etc. And don't pretend like that doesn't happen because we have all been through it.
Just today, a friend asked me to contribute to a strike fund for families, which I did. If UAW people continue to insult, demean, demonize, etc. people who are supporting them, they will definitely lose that support. Remember that.
If you burn the bridge, don't look back.
Why is it that non-union workers have to risk their job for union workers? The strike itself is already threat to their job.
@1qcx+1oOK3Sw9
And what about the salary GM employees who are forced to cross picketers because it's mandatory to be in the office? Do you expect them to give up their jobs?
Or the salary GM employees voluntold (and threatened by mgt) to work in the plants during the strike? We are all working for the same company. Office workers and engineers are not scabs. They aren't management and just trying to make a living. Most of us want everyone to succeed and many are supporting the union. What do you think?
Teamsters( UPS} drivers -46.00hr+
Oil/gas operators -53.00hr+
UAW -33,00hr+ pay is off and should be 46.00hr+
The low level (6's and 7's) salary are the ones like that. Those of us higher up with longer careers aren't.
Teamsters had a saying about "SCABS" years ago-----they are always remembered.
Union picket lines should be respected and not crossed by anyone no matter what department (union or not union) you work in. If your department is non-union , make the company set up temporary rented office space away from the picket lines that is not on any company property so you can do your everyday paperwork. This keeps the peace and there are no harsh words to be said or hard feelings later.
Common workers know you have to unionize to protect your safety, pay,seniority,etc. Non-union employees such as management have no union protection and get tossed whichever way the wind blows and live on a foundation of sand.
Jealously comes into play when those who deem themselves "highly educated" figure out they make a lot less money and less benefits than common workers in a plant. Common people have good common wit. The high eds just follow along with no thought or research and put themselves in the debt ditch for big tuitions for nothing. They feel degraded because the college told them you will be better and smarter than anyone else. Look at your paycheck ... who outsmarted who?
I've been management for a long long time and I'm a realist but you aren't doing yourself any favors with that argument. Have you been sent to any of those plants in Mexico (or China, India, etc for that matter)? I have and those places are no where you'd want to move to permanently so i definitely wouldn't use them as an example of what you want things to be like.
Next as automated as plants are nowadays, final assembly at all automotive plants is manual labor intensive. When i was young, i had the same view as you but now i see them as the people that actually earn our salaries and i definitely wouldn't want their job. Work stations setup by time studies to maximize output with timed breaks/lunches while being tied to an constantly moving assembly without a bathroom break for hours if needed.
Also i wouldn't brag on the people who design and manufacture the assembly parts considering the issues/warranty repairs/settlements those have cost the company over the years. You may wanna get off your high horse.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_ignition_switch_recalls
Let's be VERY clear.
UAW assembly line workers don't make anything.
The parts were ALL designed and manufactured somewhere else by people with actual skills that for the most part made less money.
Beyond simply assembling things that other people designed and manufactured, the UAW worker doesn't even figure out how it goes together, the plant layout, the manufacturing process, or for that matter, ANYTHING. That's all done by manufacturing engineers and suppliers. They simply show up to work and are instructed on what clip to push, what button to push, what part to load. It's menial labor and they are paid disproportionately (much, much too high). If you want to argue this point, I'll start with an additional point:
Uneducated Mexicans with no manufacturing experience are able to build GM cars and trucks in Mexico with the same quality standards and at the same rate. It's work literally anyone can do, and these Mexicans do it for a fraction of the price and none of the drama. Don't just downvote me. Use words like an adult. Make your voice clear! Demonstrate how I'm wrong!!!
@1znr+1oOK3Sw9
That didn't answer the question.
The original question was:
"Do you get paid more or less than $33/hr? If more, are you overpaid?"
To which I asked, "Are you saying that an engineer should make the same or less than a factory worker?"
So the question remains. Equal (ore more) pay for any UAW member and any engineer?
And here's another question: Would you go to college and do all that hard work and end up owing 100k in student loans when you could also just show up to work after high school to install products you didn't make or design for the same salary?
A good assembly line worker is worth 10 times more than a bad engineer
@ybc+1oOK3Sw9
What is your argument? That shareholders should receive dividends? That they earn a disproportionate amount of the profits? Explain. How does a billionaire who owns GM stock rob you of your "fair share"?
@cki+1oOK3Sw9
Are you saying that an engineer should make the same or less than a factory worker?
"UAW workers make on average $33/hr with very generous benefits and PROFIT SHARING checks."
Do you get paid more or less than $33/hr?
If more, are you overpaid?
Who are the billionaires?
The Kochs, the Mercers, Harlan Crow....
They're not the CEOs of the companies, they control the CEOs through stock ownership, lavish gifts (like Clarence and Alito), etc.
The economy is built to benefit the privileged class, and workers get as little as they can get away with paying them.
If you ask for a raise, you're disloyal to the company and a communist, while Mary and her puppet masters indulge their Champaign tastes.
As salaried employees, we are trapped between the abusive management and the UAW. Unlike the management, I don't feel the UAW are evil. It's still anxiety-provoking.