Thread regarding Ford layoffs

@7btz+1mznQszX I agree, outsourcing never works, and whatever the "savings" in salary, they get overshadowed by the losses in ideas, training time, outdated technology and costly mistakes.

I don't blame those guys for jumping jobs for a better salary. After all, they know the company betrayed the local workforce when outsourced the jobs, and management is willing to do anything for bigger bonuses. No loyalty both ways, as it should be, since you get what you pay for.

We've been trying to outsource for 50+ years, and every time Hindu employee 58238432 learns a new skill, they jump jobs for a nickel. Outsourcing doesn't work regardless what management thinks. They have limited experience in the automotive world, in which we have 100+ years of experience. With that said, management will never stop trying. Just as monkey can do the most basic routine, we can teach 3rd would countries to do the most basic routines as well. When it comes to anything with advanced thinking, it starts to get very complicated.

Knowing people in the industries of computer IT, as well as automotive design and engineering, they are chomping at the bit to hire people stateside. Due to lack of people with heartbeats and a pulse, it makes it difficult. These corporations want people from the states, and are only settling on offshore counterparts. The tide has turned since Covid occurred, people are not available. Mark my words, they want people stateside. I hear it from managers and directors, to executives. They want people here. If you aren't available, they go with lower tier candidates. It doesn't save them money, if they have to rework the job 50 times. It just checks a box.

Moderators were busy early this morning. Many threads questioning the government and corporate EV strategy were deleted. Get in line everyone.

@3cdt+1mznQszX the fewer people go into trades, the more money the tradesmen will make. good for them.

It is imperative - that means important - that most of you direct your children into trade schools and truck driving schools. This is a need in our country going forward. My kids have already been accepted into major universities, so they won't be going to trade school. But the blue collar families out there need to steer their kids into the trades. It is critical!

The question we should be asking is when all these corporations move as many jobs overseas as possible to satisfy their shareholders (and not supporting America or their American employees) who in America will be left to be able to afford their products?

Prices won't be coming down with all the 'cost savings.' The corporations (most) will continue to report record profits while America descends into 3rd world nation status with the complete eradication of the middle class. We have been well on our way for some time now...

Stop sleepwalking through life. Listen to what is being said and by whom.
The split into three companies and the shifting of employees around was designed by Boston Consulting Group. It is a vehicle to dispose of massive numbers of employees.

Pay attention to outcome from each and every company they consult with. They all have the followed the same paths:

• shift 85-90% of jobs to low-cost countries,
• aggressively remove 45+ year old workers,
• reorg your company into multiple entities then hire lower cost employees into NewDivision then later claim those in OldDivision are all redundant
• finally stuff all the unwanted employees and assets into a Division, spin it off to a new company with the intent that the company will go thru bankruptcy and most likely dissolution.

The curious thing is that rarely are companies are actually healthier long term after following BCG advice. Let’s face it if Ford had capable leadership they wouldn’t need to be told how to run the business. If Ford had capable leadership and BOD they would say hold on we should fire the 70% of management and workers whose only contributions are to support and fill management silos; we should keep the 30% who do work regardless of their salary/wage/physical attributes. But nope the 30% are firing targets and the 70% are kept and promoted.

Putting business aside anyone with an ounce of common sense and social awareness knows that the Ford the company and Ford leadership has lost the trust and respect of a large network of people. That is not a small thing.

So I guess it's not about not having the qualified personnel as stated by Fartley. It's all about $ only! Who would ever buy another Ford vehicle?

Who is building the hardware? The same guy who is peddling subscription services or a designer-engineer?

No, I think there will be much less hardware engineering needed since most of Ford's future revenue is coming from digital mobility sources. Connected data, subscription services, etc.

Even CS/software engineers won't be safe, AI and ML will dictate how that aspect of the industry will be impacted. The funny thing is vehicles still need hardware components i.e. chassis, body, modules and wiring. They will still need traditional D&R's and designers.

I do still hire blue collar workers, but I pay them less than before quarantine. And at my fast food franchises, I advertised that the hourly rate would increase, but I cut the number of employees significantly. So I can show a higher wage and still save on payroll by employing fewer people.

It is estimated that EV will require 30-40% less labor to build vehicles. White collar maybe disproportionately affected, but blue collar workers will also feel the brunt. The exact impact will be fully known in 5-10 years as manufacturers phase out ICE, basically forcing EV's on the public.

https://spectrum.ieee.org/the-ev-transition-explained-2658797703

To those saying that blue collar workers are the ones being replaced, you're not paying attention. The fact is that white collar work is leaving this country as far if not faster than blue collar jobs. I think in many of our lifetimes we'll see Computer Science and most engineering degrees become meaningless due to the Chinese, Indian, and even central and south America countries working for a lot less in the categories.

I'm glad I'm nearing retirement, because the kids coming out of college saddled with thousands in debt with no job prospects are in for a world of hurt.

Wealth is being accumulated at the top, you can see that with how Farley/Ford have handled these mass separations. Program management and LL5+ ranks have been largely untouched. Clear strategy is to ship the working level jobs oversees while keeping ineffective management, who are nothing but overhead. This leaves Ford with a bunch of LL5+ who add little to no value, either in terms of technical expertise or strategy. You can see that within the current leadership team i.e. VP's and various functional directors etc. They are largely responsible for poor decisions and lack of accountability within their organization, but get a free pass for never ending stream of failed launches, quality issues and recalls. The common white-blue collar worker bears the brunt.

@sfu was both laughing and crying reading your post. Laughing at Ford leadership foolishness and crying at the destruction of people and the company. There was one person on our team who was inarguably the best asset the company had in our department. They had her train others, write documentation AND a write detailed five year plan for the department. Then surprise surprise they laid her off one week after the LL5 was confident he understood the 5 year plan. Yes white and over 50. What is sad/amusing is 4 years later not a single line item has been accomplished on that 5 year plan. For the first few years everyone was blaming the person who they laid off claiming she didn’t train and document and off course they hired more people. Then they started blaming the software vendors and scapegoating an LL6. The LL6 was laid off. Then they found another scapegoat, odds are he will be laid off this year. Still nothing has been accomplished, yet people are getting promoted and some totally inept people were given the coveted HTHD status and large salary bump. The best odds are to sit and do absolutely no work. Those people retire from Ford.

This will not be easy for most of you. This country no longer needs most blue collar or academically uneducated workers like it used to. All of that unskilled labor is being offshored. And now we are able to offshore the engineering and design as well.

Soon, we will manufacture as much as possible in low cost countries. Large corporations will be run by executives in the US and most of the other operations will be foreign and low cost.

New vehicle prices will continue to rise as profit margins must continue to grow. Blue collar and poor people will no longer be able to afford new vehicles. This is part of the evolution of our country's economy and capitalism.

Used vehicles will be more attainable for blue collar people. They will likely have to replace the EV battery as part of the purchase. But Ford can make money on both sales - the used vehicle as well as the EV battery.

Wealthy people - young and old - will be the backbone of Ford Motor Company.

Vehicles are complex enough so why add the complexity to engineer and build them. Engineer and manufacture with minimal complexity. Reuse and share between platforms. Discipline is what Ford lacks.

Toyota and Honda are great examples. Never in the news but they just keep chugging along. Have you seen the newest Tundra full size truck. Ford will continue to loose market share unless they can turn things around with hard work and less complex designs.

No amount of spin from management can fix these issues. What they need is a brilliant engineer who has come up thru the ranks and has the respect of the team around them. Jim Farley is not that person. There are still a few great people in the company but time is running out because they too are getting tired of the same old song.

@1nvv+1mznQszX. Ford has never had much success marketing to young, affluent customers and that is not likely to change.

Exactly! Go woke go broke!!

We boycotted Gillette and NFL and Budweiser! And we absolutely DESTROYED those companies!

When is the last time you ever heard of Gillette or NFL or Budweiser?! They're gone from the marketplace!!

Together we conservatives can do the same to Ford Motor Company!

And 18 to 24 year olds should NOT be allowed to vote in US elections! Unless they serve(d) in military / first-responder!

There are a lot of reasons for Ford’s failures, not just the EVs. They have continually shifted all types of jobs ( not just technical and IT jobs ) to India and China. Every Department continues to shrink and in most cases not because of advanced technology replacing people but just to get cheaper labor. They do not look at what people really want to buy and what most can afford ( watch repos start increasing ). Finally: Go woke, you go broke. For those who think that there is prejudice in this company, there is. For white people. I just watched several people get moved from a dept. They were all white. Male and female and I am pretty sure that they all are great employees and hard workers. So maybe management is getting what they deserve. We’ll see.

Young, affluent, highly educated lol. Some of you are full of yourself. Most of the folks who were, and are continuing to be targeted, are well educated, homeowners, with money. They are just not stupid enough to drop large dollars on a depreciating asset with poor quality, and carry on through life with education loans they can't pay. The remaining folks, had mommy and daddy pay for their education and have some false sense of entitlement and accomplishment.

We can sell fewer vehicles per year because we will be making a larger profit per sale. That is why we are getting out of the entry-level vehicle segments.

We do not want our brand to look like poor blue collar people driving Focus or F150 XL.

Ford's target customer base is the young, affluent, highly educated people that can afford our premium vehicles and will carry our company into the future.

How do you justify sellling less cars a year??? Going out of business since 1956!!!!!!!!!!

@suk+1mznQszX 100% agree
An LL4 told us watch and see Kiersten will get rewarded with a promotion for all the truth bending, tall tales and misplacing of evidence. And sure enough there was a promotion to a role where lacking qualifications a mighty big hash has been made. All covered up by the likes of JF and BF, who she has by the short hairs.
The wheels they turn and she will end up on the other end of the stick.

Beg to differ @xgz+1mznQszX. If Ford canned all the people on the Friends and Family plan, all the space occupiers only there due to silo building activities, and all the LL3, all the LL5 you would be 80% lighter and suddenly people would be doing the right thing, quality and productivity would soar.

But nope that won’t happen because the people making the decisions NEED the headcount to grow for their own career. The only way for that to happen is to offshore to a low cost country where they can hire 20+ people for the cost of 1 US/Europe head.

Have listened to the lies and justifications for many many years now. Maybe you are still in the believe everything management says phase. We were all young and naive once upon a time.

The real fact is, without these necessary transformational changes that comments here are critical of, Ford will not be sustainable.

We have a lot of people in India right now. A few days ago, some were not available online because it was raining there. IMO, a country where power and ISP connection can go down because of rain is not a good place to outsource IT (but we did).

The company is going to replace all ICEs for BEVs, even as 1 in 10 people in the world do not have access to electricity, and Cali and Texas recently showed how unreliable is our own grid. Now Farley is going to outsource engineering. Hey! I heard Amish engineers are dirty cheap. Maybe we should build a Center of Excellence in Pennsylvania for them and remember diversity is our strength (and the only thing we can show off since we laid off the people that actually knew how to run things in the company).

Billy choo choo should outsource the CEO job to Mexico and save 22 million a year!

All the C suite at Ford (and many in Washington) are lying weasels. Of course, Farley is a poor liar and he believes himself superior than the rest of Ford. Maybe that's why he prefers making those comments to the press first, instead of telling the troops. He also prefers to deflect and talk about green unicorns and BEV rainbows, since many of those plans are still on paper (and probably would never be implemented), to avoid the chance of showing his true ignorant self (any news on the bracket group?).

Let's say that we cannot train people at Ford (I know a few myself, but these are deadwood) and we are going to hire "trained" people. How many people Ford is going to find with enough knowledge on BEV, since is a NEW development? Even Tesla, the oldest BEV maker in the world, is having issues because its employees, many of them talented, do NOT HAVE THE EXPERIENCE with the technology.

Outsourcing the engineering will have a societal impact (as told by the OP), and an awful ending for the company. Engineering is done in America, Japan, Europe, because that's where the best knowledge and education is. While companies can get away with outsourcing the menial tasks (which I don't recommend neither), the engineering part is the cornerstone of any company. It is where the knowhow, the secret formula, the foundation of the company is laid.

Can you imagine Coca Cola making the syrup in India or taking the secret recipe to China for safekeeping? In a short time we'd have several Indian and Chinese brands of soda tasting exactly the same than Coca Cola, but way cheaper, and bankrupting the company. Well, Ford has already done that in China, the best copiers and thieves of IP.

Not happy enough with the damage, Bill Ford and the C suite want to destroy what is left of the company, by outsourcing to Mexico. Just remember that you get what you pay for. I can understand Farley, after all he is a selfish ba----d looking for himself and a big bonus for outsourcing. Now Bill Ford and the rest of the family, I don't understand why they are willing to ki-l the goose that lays golden eggs, why they are trading the long term health of the company for a short term fad. Are they really that stupid? It seems this time the apple really fall far away from the Ol' Henry Ford tree (or the "apples" hit too hard their heads when they fall from the tree)

I recall a few years back when Art Van (Jim Hackett) was CEO. In one of his earlier Townhalls he made a similar comment backed by some % numbers. Art said that up to 40% of the manufacturing could go. I do not remember any talk of engineering but I would have to assume that number is close to the hourly number.

Nobody doubts that society will go to another form of propulsion for a vehicle (EV, Hydrogen). But to outsource the body and interior as well is crazy.

Now this is where I call senior management a pack of Liars. For years we had engineering teams all over the world. I think in 2018 we had 9 worldwide PD centers.
For years we asked questions why do we have pd centers in those countries we lose money. the response was those activities know those markets. For years we were told this by numerous CEOs and Presidents, and VPs.
So how is it that Mexico, India know our markets ?

Cancel Ford.

I used to only buy American. Then Ford SIRP'd me. Now I buy whatever I want no matter where it's made. Buy American is a farce.

Offshoring does not save money in the long run. It merely switches the cost to a different bucket on the balance sheet. Eventually that bucket will spill over and the bad decisions realized. It's a shame, companies like Ford will never be as successful again.

I am not one for big government oversight, but it surprises me that all these corporations are permitted to offshore so much of their processes. Some sell entirely to foreign entities.

Are there any American companies - in america - making televisions anymore? Zenith may have been the last. Are all microchip companies foreign owned? Has there ever been a cell phone company that was american owned that manufactured in country? It just shocks me that the so many of our goods and services come from foreign entities or labor.

What do our political leaders think will happen when these foreign powers decide to flex their will against us? Just keep supplying us all of our products? Absolutely not. We'll be completely cut off and vulnerable.

EVs is a money grab and vehicle by consulting firms to bankrupt auto companies.

Ford and IMO when of the most unethical POS, K Robinson have done through the shameful terminations of older, pensioned talent is the benefit to competitors, especially aggressive Chinese OEMs. They were delighted to onboard and compensate those separated very well.
As for the so-called leadership brought in, especially D Field, from the delay and cancelled programs and lack of movement at Model - E it's clear he is a fake and investors/ shareholders and the buying public are well aware.
B Ford is aware as well, looking stressed and angered. Maybe a ' transformation ' is coming, starting with the termination of Farley, Field, Park, Louis Victor and the rest of the frauds brought in.

I am in my 50s. I have three degrees and numerous technical certifications. Farley you are a no talent lying POS. We are trainable, we can learn fast enough, you and your money scking leaches just want to outsource our jobs to low-cost countries so you can get more million next year. Years ago, people with experience were looked at as valuable and helped train the next generation of Ford engineers, not any more. Now we are hated, berated and targeted every year for termination. I think the only reason I am still at Ford is because my 30-year-old LL5 and LL4 people leaders who cannot spell engineering know I am the only one who can get the work done. My PLs keep trying to force me to write procedures and have training for the kids. Well guess what PL / Farley / Field, I am never going to train my replacement. I will never bring the rope to my own hanging. I will go through the steps of helping with a lying smile on my face, but I will never provide the critical knowledge needed to be successful. Knowledge is the last tool I/we have to keep our jobs. We all need to quietly work every day to ensure we (GSRs/LL6s) in the US succeed and that Mexico PD and the low-cost country outsourcing fails. Fck all the PLs, time to take care of ourselves.

When will Ford (and other OEM’s) learn?

Ford Purchasing offshored computer chips years ago to save pennies, displacing jobs and strategic build capability aim the US. When they get bu-t hurt for lack of supply, taxpayers have to fund US plant locations for the same offshore companies.

Ford should live (and die) by their own stupid decisions and failed strategies.

As an aside, how many (few) Fords are sold in China, S Korea, Taiwan, and India.

Never see a Ford in my garage.

It saddens me to see how happily these corporate giants offshore everything they possibly can.

It is really ironic. Ford begged the government to implement the 'Chicken Tax' to prevent VW and other competitors from eating up the truck market - which they were beginning to do - with vehicles built in other countries and imported into the US. So the government imposed tariffs on trucks that were not assembled in the us.

All the foreign competitors kept their headquarters in their home country - including engineering and design - and built assembly plants in the US to avoid the Chicken Tax.

Now, Ford is behaving like a foreign competitor. They are moving everything out of the US - except for the assembly plants. They will pay third world wages on most of their process - and then the only remaining step in the process kept in the US will be the assembly plants to avoid the Chicken Tax that they were the cause of in the first place.

It won't surprise me if Ford's long term plan is to move everything to foreign countries - including assembly - and then deliver vehicle modules into the US where the remaining assembly plants will assemble the modules into the final vehicle (it's called KD or Knocked Down - and it's the absolute most a company can do to build foreign vehicles and skirt the Chicken Tax).