Thread regarding IBM layoffs

Middle management job cuts raise fears of US ‘white-collar recession’

Hopefully if and when the next round of RAs hit, they will focus on middle management too.

https://www.ft.com/content/b06bfbda-619c-4f16-ae9b-26a66d609db2

A wave of lay-offs in middle management has raised fears the US is heading towards a “white-collar recession”, according to economists and recruiters.

In previous downturns, blue-collar employees including construction workers and truck drivers have tended to be the first to lose their jobs, but this time American companies have been focusing headcount reductions on middle managers working in office jobs.

In recent weeks, a number of companies including Walmart, Ford, Gap, Zillow and Stanley Black & Decker have announced they plan to cut jobs at their head offices.

William Lee, economist at the Milken Institute, suggested that companies may now have more people in middle manager roles than they require or can afford after rushing to hire as much professional talent as possible when the economy bounced back from the Covid-19 pandemic.

In the past two months, recruitment firm Challenger, Gray & Christmas, which specialises in helping mid-level managers who have been laid off find jobs, has recorded an uptick in work positions that have been done away with.

“Those big, big salaries catch people’s eyes when they have to make those horrible decisions about who to let go,” said Andy Challenger, senior vice-president.

Although lay-offs have hovered near record lows for more than a year, some economists suspect the job cuts Challenger observed are the first sign of a “white-collar recession” where mid-ranking office workers have their jobs eliminated at higher rates than counterparts working in manufacturing, service and transportation.

“People are saying this will affect white-collar workers more than the past recessions because it’s very much driven by rising interest rates and by declining stock price valuations,” said Julia Pollak, chief economist at jobs site ZipRecruiter.

She added: “Because in many blue-collar industries there are still labour shortages, there are a whole lot of industries that would just not be able to shed workers because they’re already understaffed.”

More than half of US chief executives say they are considering workforce reductions over the next six months in preparation for a potential recession, according to a KPMG report.

“I wouldn’t at all be surprised if white-collar workers do end up being the first to be let go in a recession scenario,” said Dave Gilbertson, a vice-president at HR software maker UKG.

“If you look at where the lay-offs have been already, it really hasn’t driven to the blue-collar markets yet. That is because there’s such a severe labour shortage in these blue-collar roles.”

Meanwhile, companies in Silicon Valley and on Wall Street that employ large numbers of people in professional roles have rushed to implement redundancies. Netflix has laid off nearly 500 workers this year, most recently 30 members of its animation team in September. Snap cut 20 per cent of its staff, about 1,300 workers, in August.

Elon Musk laid off thousands of Twitter employees on Friday after closing his buyout of the social media company. Before the cuts even started, Musk said he planned to take aim at middle management. “There seem to be 10 people ‘managing’ for every one person coding,” the self-proclaimed “Chief Twit” wrote on the platform.

Meta is also planning its first large-scale lay-offs, The Wall Street Journal reported on Monday.

Denis Coleman, Goldman Sachs chief financial officer, said in July that the bank would “probably [be] reinstating our annual performance review of our employee base at the end of the year”, after suspending the scheme before the pandemic.

There have also been widespread cuts for realtors, mortgage brokers and appraisers since rising interest rates in March resulted in home sales slowing to a crawl.

Conversely, job cuts for blue-collar workers and others earning lower salaries, like those employed in leisure and hospitality, have been less pronounced.

Low-wage staff in stores, restaurants and hotels were the first to lose their jobs after the Covid crisis took hold in March 2020. But now these are the very people in short supply.

The leisure and hospitality sector employs 1.1mn fewer workers compared with the level in February 2020.

Many chief executives had been considering thinning out management ranks even before persistent inflation raised recession fears and pushed them to cut costs.

The stereotypes of unhelpful bureaucrats inspired what McKinsey senior partner Bill Schaninger calls a “30-year as----t” on middle managers. The pandemic accelerated it by demonstrating that senior leaders could quickly make strategic and operational shifts without the support of their broader teams, he said.

Gilbertson at UKG said: “There’s a significant portion of the population who will have to delay the American dream because they can’t find the role that they want.”

But even if new managerial roles do dry up, Gilbertson expects employers to continue hiring for blue-collar roles. The so-called laptop class might find those jobs more appealing than before the pandemic, he said, as they’ve recorded strong wage growth over the past two years.

“As an economy, there should be plenty of jobs available,” Gilbertson said. “They just might not be the kinds of jobs that workers want.”

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| 2784 views | | 10 replies (last November 26, 2022) | Reply
Post ID: @OP+1jQaI0ky

10 replies (most recent on top)

@1hfi, you are reading it wrong. Musk is saying 10 people managing a 1 single dev coder. Not 1 manager managing 10+ dev coder. That is true at IBM whether a direct reporting line and direct higher upline or dotted reporting lines.

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Post ID: @3vrk+1jQaI0ky

We are AI in a simulation and the “remote” managers hire us through IBM to do the managers real job outside the simulation. We are basically slaves in a computer hired by lazy folks one layer above and removed from the simulation. We are slowly being disclosed this information by red hat hackers, hence the acquisition, and we’ll soon be uploaded out of the simulation once the red hackers track down the ring that created us and the simulation. You’re welcome.

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Post ID: @2oud+1jQaI0ky

@scn - You're right ... my bad. What matters is how you perform, not where you're located. That comment I included at the end of my previous post was based on a horrible experience I had with a remotely-located manager. He was chronically late for every meeting, was a no-show for about a third of the meetings he scheduled with me, and over the course of several years, never attended a single one of one of our weekly cross-functional team meetings (to which he was always invited) despite these meetings being vital to our direct revenue-bearing work within IBM. This guy took more vacation than anyone I'd ever seen at IBM. Yet, he refused to share his vacation planner with us, and the only way we'd know he was gone was when we'd send him an email and get an auto-reply back. But, all of that's on him, and not the fault of his remote location. His management at HQ was well-aware of his behavior, but for some reason, they continued to let him get away with pulling this BS year after year.

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Post ID: @2nus+1jQaI0ky

IBM has always been aligned around a 10 - 1 management structure. It comes from the Watson days and has been impossible to extinguish. Gertsner came close to getting rid of the 10-1, when he laid off 60k year 1 and another 40k year 2 for a closer to 20-1 ratio. His problem was he lost focus, so the 10-1 came back and with career IBM’ers taking over the CEO suite (Sam and Ginni), they accepted that ratio. Now that AK has taken over, we’ll soon find out if he is willing to upset the apple cart, or just go along to get along. Given the current economic headwinds, every mid-level manager you cut, drops to the bottom line at least for the short term.

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Post ID: @1hfi+1jQaI0ky

Duh, shouldn’t that have been the first order of things. But they felt getting rid of critical roles in bottom were the way to go. Please look at all those roles who are analysts or run reports or research. Why aren’t they affected, while roles with customer facings were always first to go. I would love to see my 2nd and 3rd line sweat finding the next job, watch as their savings disappear. Forgive the anger rant.

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Post ID: @1oxr+1jQaI0ky
Before the cuts even started, Musk said he planned to take aim at middle management. “There seem to be 10 people ‘managing’ for every one person coding,” the self-proclaimed “Chief Twit” wrote on the platform.

AK needs to realize the same is true at IBM and execute the same as what Musk did.

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Post ID: @yin+1jQaI0ky

"especially these clowns that work remotely from out-of-state.". to the poster of this . i agree with 90% of your post but just because someone works remotely doesn't mean $#it... there's just as many clowns "in state" or whatever state you're talking about... working in office... work for Twitter if you want all in office...but the again you work for ibm so also any skilla for adannvws tech

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Post ID: @scn+1jQaI0ky

@soq+1jQaI0ky... THIS.. there is so much dead executive weight here it's comical.

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Post ID: @myg+1jQaI0ky
why our organization had multiple managers with a single report

This exists all over IBM. A VP whose sole direct report is another VP whose sole direct report is a Director whose sole direct report is a B10 STSM/Program Director who has maybe 2 or 3 B7-8's that do the actual work. In what universe does an org structure like this make any logical sense? Of course come RA time they'll tell the STSM he needs to let one of his B8's go.

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Post ID: @soq+1jQaI0ky

Well, I can tell you that, based on empirical observations of the management in my organization, about 80% of them are as useful as teats on a boar hog. I talked to our HR Partner shortly before I left IBM, and she assured me that “we pay very close attention to the span of control.” When I asked her why our organization had multiple managers with a single report (who was usually another manager) and pointed out a few specific examples, you could hear crickets chirping in the background. The most urgent thing that IBM needs to do organizationally is clean house and get rid of all the paper shuffling dead-wood managers that contribute absolutely nothing … especially these clowns that work remotely from out-of-state.

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Post ID: @adu+1jQaI0ky

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