At this point I'm pretty sure the company's goal is to make you quit. It's the only way their current benefit reduction strategy makes sense.
Check your tmo emails today.
Experienced hire here. Newsflash to the lifers, this company is not special.
53 replies (most recent on top)
How about the lifelong expats in Houston. How does that make sense? Make them apply for citizenship if they want to stay here for decades.
@2lea+1aClsnUu If expats have to put their kids in public schools in Midland and Carlsbad come talk to me. Plenty of good public schools in Houston. I’m not feeling sorry for expats in Houston. Go to the border. People are risking their lives to get into Texas.
Dream on. I’ve only seen benefits eroded. They never go the other way. Last time they did was when oil was $100 and people thought we were running out of it.
Will the benefit come back now that oil is $65+ ?
What a bunch of whiny a-s expats. You expats contributed to the wreck of this company. Soaked us long and hard with your salaries and benefits, lived large, and did nothing but serve as corporate spies and yes men. Why should this company pay you a bunch of money and give you a bunch of benefits just because you work outside your home country, you are all now spoiled rotten and we made you wealthy, get over it and go home. And for you young folks that want to experience life in another country, then move there and find a job.
I feel bad for the vast majority of expats, but my supervisor who f'd me in ranking and subsequently set me up for getting the involuntary is an expat. He's also entirely worthless, really a complete leech on the company. I can't help but feel karma has come full circle on him, which puts a snickering smile on my face.
EM is such a dirty company. They continue to make absolutely awful decisions that f their employees, their "most valuable resource." What a load of sh*t.
Or the people that can't get jobs at other companies....
Further reductions in the expat benefits will ensure only the motivated ones take these assignments.
Looks like expats coming to Houston have to put their kids in public schools, as there is no more private school tuition payments here. So, no more Awty, John Cooper, British International School, etc. That's a big disincentive.
The best part of any expat assignment is the early morning and late evening conference calls with Houston. I never understood why it was ok for me to be on the phone late at night 3X per week so that Houston could keep their core hours.
I have only ever done one assignment so I do not have much visibility to expats beyond the last 3 years.
I would say that I have seen a very small amount of expats take advantage of the system. I have seen some worthless expats, but most of the expats I know now are very hard workers who haven't left their host countries in over a year now. We've missed weddings, funerals, and other family life events because from many countries it is still impossible to travel in or out of the host country. All remaining expats have their cell phones strapped to their heads most of the time dealing with all kinds of BS from the locals.
I also sit in meetings with teams from the states boasting about already having got their vaccines and what a normal life they live. The company has not lifted a finger to provide support to bring (or even provide any alternative) to their people located in high risk Corona virus countries.
Over a year later we are still living a lockdown and restricted life because the government of the host countries can't get it together.
Kind of discouraging to get constantly crapped on by the ones you're working so hard for.
Assume you increase your annual holiday budget by 5-10% of your gross earnings (because that is what an expat assignment will cost you.)
Now, do you meet your life goals with the expat assignment or with the higher vacation allocation? That is really the decision you are making.
I think OP is right. Everyone knows being in the home office sucks and having an expat assignment was the only thing worthwhile. Now they are eroding that. It's as if a team of psychology consultants have advised how to get down to a band of loyalists. Good. They can have the f n company and the new board, whomever it is, and go f themselves. I tried to survive and keep my head in the game, but, enough is enough.
@2wxy+1aClsnUu
Here’s the thing....us expats didn’t even get details. The email said that almost everything got adjusted down, but we have to wait to see our May statement to really understand the impact. So big cloud of doom...but we don’t know how bad.
My high level estimate between the last 2 years cuts (developed county):
- Expect your family’s house will be no larger than 2000 sqr feet.
- You will lose $3-5k selling cars 2x over.
- You will lose 5-10% pay because cost-of-living adjustment is low.
- Your spouse can volunteer at kids school but not work....so you lose any salary they were generating.
- You cannot afford your kid’s tuition, and the company pays for now. Still, you are a little fearful every year that that will change, and the bill will be on you.
- You cannot keep your home-location house, unless your mortgage is essentially 0. You ‘pay back’ ExxonMobil what you would have made on rent, even if you cannot find renters (no protections anymore.)
- No real enablement to travel back to your home country to see family. No travel days. The ‘travel allowance’ means little, since you are already slightly in the ho-e.
- Medical costs are fine, but service and view on treatment is very different. If you have anything chronic (even if it seems minor), really think through the move. You will have to change medications, at the very least.
- You get a lump sum for misc expenses on the initial move. It seems big but it is fully used with actual expenses. I used $2-3k of my own money covering inadequate transition costs so that my family was mildly comfortable.
- Mentioned in other threads, but you pay for a lot up front and get reimbursed much later. For a family, assume you need $30k cash liquidity...unless you want to pay non-reimbursable interest on credit cards.
- Oh, and depending on location, I hear some people find they cannot invest in their normal retirement plans or investment strategies.
Think about how you and your family lived about 5-10 years ago...and that’s probably a pretty accurate comparison monetarily. It is not the worst thing, but it is noticeable. If you knew it stayed the same from this point on, maybe it is worth the risk. ...but if you extrapolate that it changes in the company’s favor every year, you start to say ‘What else can I give up?’
Unless a documented management promotion is offered, ex-pat job has no merits.
And even in that case, it has no merits.
Not today.
And maybe never - the Raj system of the past was equally ugly.
On the other hand - if you have what they call a 'frivolous' lifestyle, it can be at least 'fun'.
Find an expat in the location you are being offered with situation as close to yours as possible. Family size, CL level, sending/receiving location all impact the expat benefits and the May 1 changes. Most expats are willing to share experiences and details, they've been through it and understand the issues.
As others have mentioned, also assume benefits will be reduced with little notice while you are on assignment and factor that into your decision.
One thing you can count on is whatever the deal is you are offered now it will continue to be changed by HR over time and not in your favor. Happened to me on two expat assignments. They are constantly reducing benefits and changing the cost of living adjustments to favor the company.
Beware. The days of expat assignments being a good thing are over. Better to just stay in Houston. You’re taking a pay cut if you go anywhere else.
Please help post specifics here! I just got offered an expat job but I don’t know what just happened with the Corp communications. Who took a big hit? What countries? What’s the issue or policy change?
If the Corp doesn’t realize the pain of uprooting your family and moving across the globe, the perks and compensation is the really the best way to incentivize us to move. If that is taken away, no one will want to move overseas.
@1lkd+1aClsnUu Stating that the younger generation doesn’t care about compensation and are willing to lose hundreds of thousands of dollars for comfort just shows that you’re completely out of touch with the younger generation. Gen Z and younger millennials will quit a job and not look back the minute they feel it’s not worth it, whether that’s compensation or comfort. We do not buy into the idea of working for one company for life and feel no loyalty to this company whatsoever. I think the younger people in this company are more likely to leave than the older people. We are literally the “eff that job” generation. Do you know what young people?
This is true. You're partner sacrifices their income so you can work in a foreign country where they have to sit at home without the appropriate visas to get a job (most likely there aren't any in your host country anyways).
So you can a 20-30% uplift and meanwhile your partner takes a 100% cut in income.
If they were that desperate to save money XOM should get rid of all these parasitic "service providers" that TMO pays to "assist" your setup in the host country. Let's be real here, these companies are worthless. TMO would achieve the same results by driving you to the middle of 3rd worldville in a van and kicking you out in the middle of the night.
He-l I even coordinated my and my wife's visas since the XOM resource couldn't seem to make it happen. They kept asking for all this information for my wife's visa and in reality she was already in country because we took the reigns. I'm sure they still invoiced XOM though.
It's up to you to make it happen. Meanwhile, show up and drink your job scope through a firehose.
I just lost $10k ouT of my expat benefits I figure from that TMO email. I'm completely demotivated to stay in my job now, full-stop. It was already a huge income loss with my spouse giving up their job to come here, and moving from a high-tax country where I get screwed on the exchange rate and tax equalization.
1wqj+1aClsnUu is a know nothing d0ucheshpag.
Haha yeah. They're counting on young people not knowing what proper expat compensation looks like, but, they are forgetting that the younger generation doesnt care about the money as much as the current expat vets do. The younger generation will forgo 100s of thousands to stay comfortable. Big mistake.
@1avs I understand where you are coming from. I have done many International assignments and several domestic. If going to high tax state then domestic is losing proposition in spite of "tax equalization " Along with that is high cost of living not covered properly. Now International assignments are getting same way. YOU are only one who can feel if your compensation is worth it or not. Unless you really like carrots do-g pin much value on taking something you are unhappy with for the "hope" of a future reward. Unless you have been clearly told your potential it's all BS.
The expat doesn’t have to compare their expat living standard to local living standard. They compare it to their home country living standard.
The expat living standard may be higher than the local but is still lower than the home country living standard.
Safety, education for children, cultural differences, distance from friends and family, etc
There was a time when your comment would have rung true. What we have seen in the past 15 years is a continual decrease in employee benefits. The industry and company are in decline!!!
- cost of living for domestic assignments eliminated
- 401k match eliminated
- calculation for home loss protection changed to no longer consider any investment after initial purchase
- moving allowances no longer tax protected
- education reimbursement reduced then eliminated
- vehicle disposition allowances eliminated
- appliance disposition allowances eliminated
- continued changes to expat assumed in Houston costs (increase) and assignment costs (decreased) resulting in lower pay
- reduced education benefits for children of expats while in assignment
I could go on and on. Get out.
Hard to say impact. They can spin it however they want to. There are some who have risen to high levels without ever leaving Houston. Impossible to predict the impact. If enough people decline they will eventually change the policies again.
Only on my first expat assignment to an undeveloped country. It's very hard work that never stops and we deal with business challenges unheard of in the states.
With the new guidelines I would say it's becoming a financiallt worthless experience. I might even say I'm loosing money based on the poor housing allowance given.
Any advice from those more experienced, what if I say no to the never relocation?... How does this impact my career outlook?
@1irf+1aClsnUu Also agree. Others take note.
The company asks you to say ‘yes’ without knowing the location or the pay. Once you say ‘yes,’ you cannot un-say-it.
Treat it like a negotiation from the beginning. You would never take a job without knowing the pay.
You will be told by your managers that you are special for getting such an opportunity. It feels good at first. You will then be sent through a gauntlet of the most insanely poor relocation support you could possibly imagine, all while you get treated like a criminal....and no question about anything will be answered to your satisfaction. You will literally think you are going insane, because it is impossible to even imagine that this is supposed to be ‘relocation help.’ You will strain relationships. You will liquidate assets with no understanding of what portions are policy protected.
Then you get to your destination and it is done...a bad memory. Other expats wink knowingly, because they know that you just saw the underbelly of everything dysfunctional about the corporation. ...and then you have a good assignment....until you realize the company can and will change every component of your compensation on a whim, and your next two years are just going to be a financial dice roll.
@1irf is spot on. They are counting on the old dogs to retire and the young uns not to know better. Being an expat is good because its where the real work is and some locations are cool. It really sucks after a while missing important events like weddings, funerals, etc and those who depend upon you back home in any way will also pay a price when you are away. Dont underestimate any of that. In my opinion, the benefits have already been driven down near the breaking point. What they are doing now isn't worth it. If you're young and single with no life then go for it.
Let’s read into what the company is saying with this package:
- No expats in the US from developed countries.
- Some expats in the US from developing counties.
- Some young US expats in other parts of the world, only if the have no families and don’t mind a pay cut.
- Suspect executives get a supplemental package, so you will still see them around.
This is one where we actually have a say, if we say it consistently:
‘Are you willing to relocate?’
‘Yes, I am willing to relocate, but I have some conditions before I accept: 1) I need to see the package. 2) I need HR/Management to grandfather me in for the planned duration of the assignment and 3) I need to talk to the last person on assignment in that location.’
ExxonMobil will need expats...even to all you haters out there. The company has a human requirement to answer these questions prior to you jumping on board. And said this way, no manager can hold it against you in your career progression. You didn’t say ‘no.’ You just want ExxonMobil to be an ethical partner as you make decisions that change you and your family’s future.
Keep in mind: Other companies send employees (and sometimes their spouses) on a business trip to location, just to see if they like the region BEFORE they commit.
If ExxonMobil forces us to take significant financial risk, employees need to hold the company to some basic rules and transparency.
Holy Cow! I just received that TMO email. I can't believe they are actually going to do it. I'm a high CL engineering specialist. Have been an expat for decades. I easily justify my existence every year in terms of kBOE extra in the bank, I'm not just another d bag manager wannabe punching a ticket. I'll see the actual numbers next month, but, based on what I read in that email, this is definitely my last assignment. I'll take retirement shortly after the approved time period is complete and throw my hat back in the ring as a Contractor. On that basis we can negotiate and agree on terms. My prediction is that there will be few takers on future requirements ti the point if obvious Production impact and they'll take care if people on a case by case basis. If you don't ask you wont get.
Having worked in both midland and 3rd world countries as an expat, the uplift is greater appreciated on the expat assignment. As much as midland sucks it doesn't compare to dealing with the additional issues that come with living in a way worse place.
At least you can drink the water in midland (that's a joke son). You can't drink the water in either place.
If they don’t give cost of living adjustment for Carlsbad and Midland why should expats get one?
I’m down 30% in pay vs a year ago. Thanks EG!
I've almost 30 years of the company and ex-pat for most of it.
I don't reveal my origins, but been at least a year in 8 countries.
Trecate, Harburg/Slagen, Alaska '89, Melbourne, BKK, Baton Rouge, etc.
In some cases, my relocation cost more than my annual salary.
It was more than compensated by the company.
Items were individually wrapped for either shipping or storage.
I had the largest English-language DVD film collection probably ever in Sakhalin, and I was only there for 4 months. Packed, unpacked, repacked.
Aside from these incidentals, I was well-treated on housing and other essentials (medical/transport) in addition to salary.
I am an engineer specialist - none of this was just punching a ticket - and while I did alot of training, I was not training to replace my position or the like.
Or serving as an Overseer.
Perhaps that is the difference now. I can't say.
My ex-pat existence was perfect for me.
I'll be retiring soon to a small town and probably never travel.
All expats need to go home. Worthless creatures that bleed the company dry and contribute nothing. Corporate spies is all they are
@rsh+1aClsnUu is that you Darren? I’m voting to not give you a raise this year. The audacity, runs us to the ground, hands us a drill to dig further, and asks for a raise.
Policy changes like this should be another red flags to all employees. Exxon now expects you to take a personal financial loss at the start of any expat assignment (forced to dispose of your vehicles and appliances with no $ assistance), and will no longer make you whole.
They make this decision on a day when the Corp profits billions in profits.
Look at the past year, assess the likelihood of future tough years, and make your guess about how many more policies will unfairly degrade over the years.
Best to jump ship before the water gets too high and you're stuck.
Well, so long as DW is in charge it sounds like all our jobs are going to the BTC at BTC rates with BTC quality of work. Looking at my PIP coming this year, so glad my expat assignment was canceled in 2020. Good luck everyone