Thread regarding Becton Dickinson & Co. layoffs

Good idea. Good luck to everyone today as the hcl.meetings start. Thanks again BD leadership.

http://www.boycottdisneynow.com BD Technical workers... Let's get a boycottBDnow.com site going. If BD is concerned about its reputation, this should wake up those lazy fat cats getting kick backs from H1-B workers.

I can confirm that the "Knowledge Absorption" process had begun. They are moving fast and not waiting for the Transition team to get stood up. I don't know about a list of employees that HCL should hire but it makes sense that they would ask for input and past reviews.

Following is what I gathered from different sources:

1. The process of "training your replace" had begun. But because of the Disney debacle, BD tries their best to use the manager or surviving employee to do the training. However, a small number of unfortunate people who had been targeted for layoff are still need to do the training.

2. Anonymous179123 had leaked some real information, he pointed out HCL only interest in 50 specific BD employees. HCL has the list of the names already. If you are not in wave 3 nor being asked to train your replacement, it will be a waste of time to apply for a job.

3. BD is not worry about the lawsuits too much, they believes the severance package is good enough to shut everybody’s mouth. But they do worry on two things: BD's reputation on using an outsourcer who is being investigated by the Feds. And the outsourcing might fail badly if nobody joins HCL.

To other folks in this link, please correct me if my information is wrong.

If this whole outsourcing process is on the up and up, why isn't it totally transparent? Everyone knows that when things are shrouded in secrecy and confidentiality it's because something less than fair and perhaps even illegal is going on. I think we have seen enough proof from the links that have been provided here to learn that history is repeating itself in the world of outsourcing. Workers have been silenced over the last decade with fear mongering and the threat that they will not get their last paycheck or severance if they speak. That is so un-American! We have a right to express our views on what is happening to our careers and how we feel and what we think about this process.

I'm not intimidated by that. But thanks for the heads up.

Anonymous179508... the IT resources monitoring the BD network are getting laid off. In the interim, BD doesn't have the time or resources to spend on this. They are too busy integrating CareFusion. All of the infrastructure resources are extremely thin. Just use Tor...

If BD fire me, they gave me a reason to sue them. Everything will be disclosed in court paper and they will be available in public eyes.

Please keep in mind that this site is not in fact anonymous. If you read the privacy policy, they track and log your IP address (along with other identifying data) and will disclose it in legal or emergency situations, without your consent or knowledge. BD also logs outgoing http traffic (along with many other things), so they can identify internal associates that access this site as well.

If any poster was concerned about being laid off, you may be providing BD with a legal reason to fire you instead if you disclose confidential or internal information.

Your manager will be out on his ass along with the rest of them. It's only a matter if time. Most projects over the years have lost millions and the typical reaction has been to cover it up and punish the workers who had nothing to do with the lack of leadership and poor decision making that caused it.

That is very true Anonymous179494... you nailed it right on the head! BD retained the multiple layers of useless management which continue to make poor decisions for the organization. We are in the position because upper management wasted millions on relaunching EVEREST for the 5th time. As for outsourcing, even Pete Natalie knew that 100% outsourcing wasn't a viable solution. There is always a healthy balance, but to outsource all of the resources, come on... That will cost BD more money in the long run. My lazy manager at BD only knows how to deflect work and his entire staff is being outsourced. Maybe his lazy ass will finally get to do some real work instead of attending meetings and deflecting work all day.

Big amen to that.

Whoever suggested "many BD employees may grow in the HCL" must be a HCL recruiter, he also gave out one important thing is “Most the employees will move to other world class pharmacy companies across US”. So for people wants to join HCL, please be beware that you will need to relocation once the first 12 months of employment is completed. From the postings I got from glassdoor.com, you will need to move to new clients about every 6-9 months…..

Shame on you Anonymous179473. Clearly you are management that still has a job. This site is part of the grieving process. Most of the people affected have put their hearts and souls into the company. Let them rant, let them grieve, let them research. It is so true that BD is behind the curve, many companies are now in the process of bringing the iT services back in. However, that is not the point. We don't want your sympathy, we don't want your rah rah HCL either. What is interesting is that no level of management was affected in this round. The simple facts are that if IT management had done their job over the last 10 years we would not be here. The were simply chicken shit to address performance isses on any level, they flat out told managers not to develop their associates, they did not provide ongoing training, and instead of rewarding, they kept for themselves. I'm more than willing to have this conversation in person, facts are facts - but the fact is, no matter who knows, nothing will be done - fact, whistle blowers get fired or forced out. Will allways be this way until management visits the people who do the work, understand what we do and don't assume that the people who are advising you have a clue. They only do as they are told to make "you" happy, because of course, you are always right.

To say just accept the corrupt way outsourcing is being used id a defeatist attitude. Many BD emplyees may grow in th HCL organization??? Dream on.

To Anonymous179473, there are many more negative postings in this link compare to the posting about Xerox , why you care? Is it something you feel it will hurt HCL badly and you need to defend them? I guess you never talk to the BD employees yourself and just want everybody to shut up. I personally know none of my BD co-works is willing to move to HCL. As matter of fact, most of them are leaving once they find a new job; they don’t even care about the package! …….... Anonymous179473, we will not shut up and we will not join HCL. If you were a BD employee, you will be the only one joining them.

Informative piece. If we don't flood our government officials with how this is really turning out, maybe they will cap the number of h-1b visas. They also need to strengthen the laws that prevent/penalize greedy corporations from abusing this process by replacing American workers, using extortion tactics with severarence, forcing them to train repl, all which is counter productive to our American economy in the long run.

Almost 75 percent of fortune 500 companies have started to use some outsourcing. Few of them failed like xerox and others, not sure what is the point of sharing this info. Focus on getting yourself a job. Lot is wrong with the world as per your view but does that matter. The decision is already made Outsourcing is the new normal now to get the edge. All of pharma and medical device org has done it. IN FACT BD is very slow to adopt. lot of BD employees will move to HCL and might grow in that organization. Some will like it and sone will not. Most the employees will move to other world class pharmacy companies across US. Pointing to senseless news will not help. Post some jobs, recommendations and such and it more productive forum..All the best

Xerox's outsourcing one year later: layoffs … http://www.computerworld.com/article/2505586/it-outsourcing/xerox-s-outsourcing-one-year-later--layoffs.html

I was told the next IT group on the pipeline for outsourcing is EDI. It appears HCL has a very big EDI department and they had promised heavens to BD. I hope BD is not going to get hell. Wait, why I need to care?

I don't bother to join the IT global townhall meeting yesterday. Funny how my manager urged his team to came early in the morning (as we're in the APAC timezone) just to listen to sugar-coated BS by the leadership which bring no benefits to these people.

I can't wait to see how would the leadership react in years down the road when HCL bring down the service level to complete shambles. U have great people at your disposal with century of experience but u opt to outsourced to mediocre cheap IT bunch. Well, what goes around comes around.

Very true. Let things implode, which they will, stay positive and move on.

In reality, HCL does not want any BD employee; it is because having BD's old employee in the mix will make any problem cover up much more difficult. If none of BD's old employees join them, they will be very happy because they could claim any screw up was not their problems. BD is the real loser here, they had already lost millions of dollars in productive for the past couple months and it will be more even HCL comes in. I don’t have any negative feeling now; I just sit and watch, and do my things on jobs searching. However, I really appreciate this website and all the posting. It does help me to understand the whole situation much better.

This whole situation is designed to give companies like BD and HCL the upper hand. I would agree with the last advice. But if you feel you are being disciminated against or wrongfully terminated, you can review your situation with an attorney.

Before damaging BD reputation understand impact of that. Once your name is out all your recommendations are gone and for any wrong information under your name any chances for future employment are gone too. Does it really worth it? Yesterday 221 employees were informed about termination. .HCL already scheduled interview with the first batch of 25...HCL planning to hire 75 to 90 as others will not join. They only needed 50!..All the best. Focus on getting job vs negative thoughts.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/tata-consultancy-infosys-probed-over-worker-visa-practices-1434121220

If you guys think media attention would help (and it would, as they are giving away american jobs and there is a lot of focus here) you should have your family and friends like or share this page so people can see what's going on. Do not do it by yourself, give it to friends and family, if you do it they can trace it back to you. Put a link on twitter, share the page on facebook - here is the main link for our company: https://www.thelayoff.com/becton-dickinson-and

I was told the same layoff pattern is on the pipeline for non-infrastructure groups. I don't have details but please be prepared and don’t let it catch you in surprise.

It's really a shame that BD took this route instead of negotiating with their quality workers to see if they could reduce their salary and perhaps use incentive bonuses instead. If they had approached this as a team and discussed the problem and took a "we are all in this together" attitude, and understood this is our career and we have families and expenses as well, instead of taking the outsourcing route, maybe this could have been avoided and they could have had their savings. Obviously there was no humanity or creativity or due diligence for making this decision. Good luck to everyone. I hope you find a great job elsewhere.

Someone commented on BD playing a fair game? Really? BD Leaders do what is best for BD Leaders, period. This plan of action is called smoke and mirrors, so I suggest waking up and smelling the coffee before it is too late. BD and HCL signed a contract, and I am sure there is money up front to HCL, so they can retain you for 12 months at your current salary, then guess what? Bye-Bye and no severance. Your severance is built into the contract for HCL to pay you for a year. So if you actually believe this is fair, then so be it. In all reality, you will be retained for 12 months then given your walking papers, or asked to take an enormous pay cut, with no matching 401k or pension plan, and I am sure a lot less paid time off. Another thing of note, if this was truly a fair deal, why is employment only guaranteed for 12 months? Have you ever been in a position where you started a job and they told you we guarantee 12 months of employment? If the game is fair, then why not just say you can have a job as long as your performance merits it? Because performance doesn't mean anything to your BD Leaders. Maybe BD needs to make a few more layers of management, because there should be 19 layers between the common workers and CIO.

Layoffs for EMEA starting on April 2016.

They are offering this because they realize that no one will stay and train hcl workers otherwise, and they don't want to be sued.

The matching salary is heavily subsidy by BD, it won’t last. And if you say all these greedy company abusing the H1B law and ship all American jobs to India is fair game. I have nothing to say.

I was surprised to hear that the BD salary will be matched by HCL. In my personal opinion this is not bad at all. Look around and analyze layoffs going around in Pharms and tech companies. BD is playing fair game.

I meant distant termination dates, not layoff dates.

They are giving distant layoff dates because of the WARN act. Nothing was mentioned about HCL other than they may extend positions to people. You don't have to work for them. I don't know anyone who is interested in working for them with all we know.

It is a joke about giving “respect and care” to the BD employees who are being layoff. What BD and HCL are doing is cold and crude business strategy to lay you off first, then make you to join HCL and have them suck you dry with your knowledge, and finally, let HCL do the dirty work to lay you off or force you to resign without paying you anything. Now I understand why BD chose a company with horrible reputation for out sourcing.

They are losing good people that are not part of this because they see what's going on and are totally disgusted. I'm sure more will follow.

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I am not sure media can have too much help at this moment. Nice thing about this website is we can post anonymously here. A lot of good insider information had been leak out before all the announcements. But on the other hand, BD can also read every single post here and knew what we might do. For example, BD had already done couple things to avoid repeating the Disney debacle. First, they are not long officially asking any of us to train our replacement. Second, they made HCL to provide the same salary instead of compatible salary to encourage BD employee to join HCL. If they are able to move enough BD employees to HCL, BD and HCL could achieve two goals, first, HCL can declare they are using Americans and not H1B, second, the experience BD employees could help them to make the cut over smoothly.

All BD employees should contact news outlets and let them know what's going on. You can do it anonymously in most cases.