We are way, way, way too big for that. We might keep shrinking, selling off parts, laying off people, but we can't fail. I know some people like to be all doom and gloom, but this is a simple fact.
I'd bet that a 100 years from now, IBM will still be standing in some shape or form.
IBM might live on as th46e 5th or 6th largest cloud computing consulting company.
LOL. In 100 Years IBM will be a forgotten entry in an old textbook. I give it 10 years, max. And then purchased and sold off. I have had many good years here, but it is not looking good. Maybe the India division will invent something new. Highly unlikely.
What an epic thread!
The net core debt relative to cash flow is manageable… IBM does have a big incentive to pay down the debt as that impacts profitability of the finance business.
So many ppl are commenting on the layoffs and reduced number of employees in the US. The truth is that due to the poor labor laws in the US it is much much easier to lay off ppl there. Maybe some of you should be talking to your state and federal govt members to build in better employment protection laws. Unions aren’t always bad things either
Let’s put it afifferent way.
IBM is not where you go to enhance your career trajectory. It’s the nursing home of jobs.
I agree that most of IBM debt is for Financing Business, yet the "normal" debt remains high and will increase with Red Hat acquisition. Now I'm surprised a subject is rarely mentioned : goodwill. This is the bomb waiting for explosion at IBM's face. A good portion of IBM goodwill should have been impaired by now, but it has not been to avoid showing bad results. Current amount is about twice as much as net equity, and goodwill being intangible assets it means that IBM net tangible assets is negative. Applied to a household it would be scaring.
The average lifespan of a publically traded company is 10 years.
I hope IBM survives because I get a pension from them. Guaranteed by the federal government.
Do I think they will survive the next 10 years?
No!
Warren Buffet gave up on them and so have I.
That should have said employees. Not employers. LOL!
1ksc - just because someone stands up for a rationale argument doesn’t mean they are a corporate troll. Ever think that maybe - just maybe - there are employers who actually give a damn and work hard who come here to hear reasonable info? By calling someone a troll for wanting a reasonable dialog only shows your hand as someone who craves chaos and unhappiness.
People also said that Eastern Air Lines, Trans World Airlines, Pan American World Airways, and a hundred others would never die. IBM wants to translate to a service industry with the employees being offshore in India? What could go wrong?
Male or female CEO is irrelevant. She is a failure by any metric. Ask Warren Buffet. Glad the IBM trolls are commenting. Means they are concerned. Never say never. Ask MCI, Anderson Consulting, Circuit City or any other large cos that died. IBM plays as many financial games as any of the failed companies.
@1eny Add to that there’s a few grumpy old white men who use the fact that the ceo is a women to spout off about how small minded and afraid of women they are.
Well said izwq. Completely agree. I take the VAST majority of negative posts with a grain of salt. I’ve been hearing the IBM is dead and 25-50% cuts are imminent for 10 years now. On average, the views of these posts are less than 1% of IBMs population. Are things fantastic? No. But are they as horrible as some here want us to believe? Again - no.
The usual "American lives are worth more than non-American lives" act. Choosing to become upset simply because most IBMers aren't American is about as racist as it gets friend. I hope someday you see how incredibly awful that mentality is, and destructive to the human race.
@1zwq an interesting post. I'd like to ask you to provide a number of IBM's US employees as it's something we cannot get from the management. As that number is rapidly shrinking you should be able to track down why people on this board sound p-ss-d. Yeah, IBM feeds 100s of thousands of mouths but not in the USA.... And it has not been like this always... Yeah, we are not sharp with finance but we do understand when we are being raped - and the american worker is being raped left and right (and IBM invented the game in the 90s)...
Oracle, Dell, Lenovo - yes, they all struggle as the transition to cloud did not pan out as planned. Visit their boards on this site, they are littered with 100s of posts similar to what we see on IBM's page here.
Microsoft & Apple - hmmmm, I'd say no, they aren't laying off really - visit their boards here and there are no messages. There are no news articles about it, etc. You'll find a pocket of layoff issues here or there (e.g., if Apple decides not to pursue certain type of autonomous driving) but they do not have mass layoffs and people over there are genuinely happy.
@1zwq, Quit laying the guilt trip on us. No one here is "wishing" for IBM to die or wanting to hurt its employees and their families. Quite the contrary. They are worried about their own families. They are simply pointing out IBM's bad habits that will continue the deterioration of its health hastening its death.
You are the one laughably implying that IBM is no worse than Apple and Microsoft because they too have laid off employees and then you think most of us so do not fully understand business and finance? If IBM is covered by Capitalism, this forum is covered by free speech. If you don't like it, feel free to move on to reading the azz-kissing comments posted on the w3 executive blog posts.
To clarify, most of the "debt" IBM has isn't really debt at all, it's financing. Almost all mainframe sales are financed through IBM's Global Financing division. Take a look here:
https://www.fool.com/investing/2017/11/22/should-investors-be-worried-about-ibms-mountain-of.aspx
I've been reading over these forums for the past few months and I'd have to agree most of you do not fully understand business and finance. Have IBM's ethics gone down over the years, sure. All companies have. Apple and Microsoft have laid off some of my personal friends in recent months, and you don't see them struggling on Wall Street. Oracle, Dell, Lenovo, all recent layoff.. (I could keep going for a while..)
IBM will live on, I'm sorry that bothers many of you. Remember, hundreds of thousands of people go to work each day to support their spouses and children, all around the world.. Wishing IBM would go ahead and sink is a very negative thing for all of these people.. myself included. If you've been hurt, move on. It's just business. This is capitalism, if you do not like it move to North Korea.
What will ultimately destroy IBM is the damage it has done to its employees. If you don't work there you can't possibly understand. IBM still has a lot of good people but they are either looking for new jobs or waiting until retirement. New employees won't last long enough to make a mark. IBM will never again be a leader because they have convinced their best people they don't belong at IBM.
IBM has a high debt-to-equity ratio. Amazon is 48%, Microsoft is 77%, Cognizant 12%, HPE 57%, Google 2%, Accenture 0.3%. IBM is at a whopping 303%! That's unhealthy. When you are trying to get a home mortgage, you need a debt-to-equity ratio of 80% or less. If IBM was a regular person, it wouldn't be able to buy a house! And, with a trajectory of increasing debt and decreasing income, it is a matter of time before the repo man shows up at the door.
All we know is the facts.
Is IBM Dying? Yes absolutely. Just look at the revenue numbers.
Is IBM a place for career growth? No. Not anymore. Endless layoffs every year without fail.
What is the likelihood I will be laid off after my 40th birthday? Highly likely, given the Propublic article on age discrimination and current lawsuits against them.
But then, you can all be in denial and go by your "feelings"
Dead is a relative term. Kodak is not dead, technically... yahoo dot com still works
Debt 80 bil, market cap 100 bil... go figure...
Assets?
Our people are our assets...
Author of original writing is day dreaming.IBM is already dying.
Here are the facts :
Everyone know IBM revenue is decreasing every year.
Profitability or net income also decreasing every year.
2012 net income (yearly) $16.6 billion
2018 net income(yearly) $8.73 billion
In Q1 2019 they mentioned Its net income fell $1.59 billion compared with $1.68 billion a year earlier.
Most alarming factor is their debt.
Q3 2012 $33.6 billion
Q3 2017. $45.6 billion
Q1 2019. $50 billion
Forecast debt after Red hat deal in Q3 2019 $80 billion
From above facts it seems IBM is running business by simply borrowing money by corporate bonds and with lower revenue and lower net income and higher interest payment they have to make on $80 billion debt it's just matter of next recession which may come in year or two to sink this ship completely.
IBM will not die but in 5 years or less some other company may acquire it as their stock price will go drastically down or they will declare bankruptcy as their corporate debt will go beyond $100 billion in next 5 years .In that suitation some private equity fund will acquire its revenue generating assets.Then It will no more 100 years old company listed in NYSE which we know today but other company like yahoo or AOL.
Kodak didn't see that digital cameras would topple their film business. GE didn't see that renewable energy would nibble their power business. Does IBM not see that cloud will erode the hardware and associated services business? (To be fair, some do but not putting enough investment into IBM Cloud to be a serious contender. Acquiring RedHat will just generate more distraction.)
You may be correct. IBM may never die; just fade away.
Only the Paranoid Survive (Andy Grove)
I agree with original poster. Maybe not 100 years but IBM is FAR from dead. This forum gets less than 2-3 k in views. There’s over 300k employees. I’ve been hearing the rumours and premonitions of impending doom for 10 years now. Hasn’t happened. Ibm continues to hire.
Some people just need to justify their own unhappiness anyway they can and need others to be unhappy with them.
You know while strolling thru Sears, I looked at my Blackberry using AOL, and wondered why my picture that I took on my polaroid, couldn’t be posted to Yahoo. Your are right IBM will always be there.
Maybe not, but your 401k will certainly die (-;