What do you think from your expiernce? Most PMs send fancy spread sheets once a week, BA/RA are the same job, QA manually could be done for minimum wage.
36 replies (most recent on top)
also "Anybody can string together some objects" this is why you should never code my friend ;)
"Requirement analysis separates the amateurs from the pros. And there are lot of amateurs." LOL...okay buddy keep living in lala land
@XixKEkN-3xpn https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hfYJsQAhl0
Utter nonsense. Coders barely know how to interpret requirements or ask the right questions to do so. This isnt college. They aren't going to assign a task to complete. Anybody can string together some objects, etc. Requirement analysis separates the amateurs from the pros. And there are lot of amateurs.
The arrogance of Dev once again rears its cynical eyes, deaf ears, and omniscient voice. This (not the cuts) is a better reason to look elsewhere. We'll see you at P2P, Devs, when the end users look at each other and say, "What the f--k is this??!"
If the requirements are poor, why is QA's interpretation of them any more valid than development's? Agree with the other post, people writing requirements need to do a better job. On some projects at GM, I've literally had one vague sentence as a requirement, and when I asked the person who wrote it to provide more information, they refused, insisting the requirement was fine as is.
@XixKEkN-1cbx If the developers misunderstand requirements, perhaps those who are writing the requirements ought to do a better job at documenting them.
Cannot tell you how many times developers fundamentally misunderstand requirements and need QA to explain how their app actually works. They oftentimes work in silos on a fraction of features. Don’t even get me started on integration & performance. If you guys want to save the company money stop delivering c-appy code. Then maybe you’d have a case.
Lol “press buttons” what pathetic marketing apps are you guys working on? Full stop, QA’s relevance diminishes as soon as we all consistently deliver quality code. This is -not- the case in much of GMIT. Cannot tell
I always found that the business tends to do better testing than QA because they are the ones who actually use the product on a daily basis. I don't know about the rest of the developers, but I am tired of having to explain to QA exactly what and how to test.
agreed on my team we have have devs helping QA, wow so hard to do regression and write TFS tickets
@XixKEkN-zhh less experience in? umm were the ones who actually wrote the code and know how it works, its not hard to manually click buttons
@XixKEkN-zhh devs already have to babysit these manual QA's bc guess what? they don't know how coding works?....surprise...it would be way more productive and time effective if we did our own QA does
http://i.imgur.com/EhEcIyW.jpg
Laying off QA did wonders for Yahoo
“I have an idea, fire QA and let devs test!”
So you want to pay someone MORE to perform a function they have LESS experience in.
Real galaxy brain devs over here lmao
@XixKEkN-eii The sole accomplishment of this post is upsetting people. Anyone who believes that IT organizations can function successfully with nothing but devs has no idea what they are talking about. We support manufacturing and safety systems- not just marketing and sales. Every dev here has witnessed the human inclination to cut corners. Anyone who has participated in large projects knows how crucial quality requirements and coordination are. We aren’t talking about a startup, we’re talking about a massive multinational corporation. What a joke.
On roles: startups have launched with nothing but devs. It’s not ideal but it is possible. You can’t launch with only QA or only BA etc. Those roles are support roles; not the key one in tech.
@XixKEkN-nkt how is this a troll post, this actually seems like a good cost cutting idea to me, but of course GM won't use it
Coders are only a dime a dozen when you hire them with no technical interview...
Coders are a dime a dozen. Testers who can analyze requirements and write good test cases are hard to find
“The thing is, a developer can basically perform every role. I’ve had to set meetings, write user stories, and test my own code. You can’t ask a PM, BA, or tester to develop code.”
Wow, what a broken process. Would love to know what team you’re on. Relying on devs to test their own code never works as a rule across the board, and I say that as a dev. Writing user stories? What the hell??
The thing is, a developer can basically perform every role. I’ve had to set meetings, write user stories, and test my own code. You can’t ask a PM, BA, or tester to develop code.
That’s not true at all if you worked for a real tech company their Tester interviews are just a solid on algos/data structures as software engineers for the most part, don’t believe me? Apply for one. Also GM hiring requirements were having a pulse and you got hired
I’m a tester and I make 65k busting my a-- testing code written by underexperienced devs capturing million dollar bugs left and right and regularly working nights/weekends because Dates Don’t Move on GM projects, even if terrible quality code is delivered and bug turnover takes days/weeks.
Additionally, you folks need to read up on the dichotomy between ‘testing’ and ‘checking’. Automation checks. Humans test and automate. Strong testing fundamentals dictate how valuable automation ends up being. Plenty of things get automated and deliver zero value. Just a metric to make management feel good.
I agree if you’re manually testing and writing TFS tickets you should not be paid that much. I’ve also seen both, some automated QA and some manual which I have no idea how they manually do that and haven’t already quit but then again they prob can’t find a job that pays as much
I agree some QA are bright but the manual testers making 100k....come on man
@XixKEkN-vfj They are paid less and often work harder + longer hours.
I do think GM is flawed in that these people are paid equally as the devs who actually create something.
Think though the dev manager could absorb the pm role, each team has on RA that absorbs the BA role. There’s a cost saving plan if you really want it in GMIT
The PM's around here seem very worried
There are smart people in QA. A lot of them are very good in SQL and Selenium.
@XixKEkN-zfo What vertical? QA in my experience have been pretty strong- but different verticals organize their QA differently. Some orgs have structured QA teams with a good ratio of experienced hires to college grads and a sensible manner of mentoring the new hires. Other orgs throw random NCGs on dev teams and tell them to test with no formal training. It's not uncommon for QA to become SMEs by virtue of working with apps in their totality as opposed to devs who focus on specific features/front-end vs back-end or ETL.
Remember- GM is massive, even if we've worked several projects in the last few years, we've only gotten a narrow perspective on what's actually going on.
What's most likely is they cut across the board- GM employs far, far more devs than QA/BA/PM, and the ratio of those who get the axe will likely be in kind.
I think most likely it is QA because most of my QA have no clue on how to test and business logic. They don't even know how to write SQL queries
Troll post, just trying to piss people off.
IT could cut anyone. Specific roles, specific salary ranges, teams for defunct apps, all-but-maintenance-mode, etc. No one is safe.