Thread regarding University of Phoenix layoffs

Phoenix never had prestige

The problem is that Phoenix will never have prestige. A prestigious university does not operate on open enrollment. Prestige develops when there are high standards, both for students and faculty. Phoenix is continually lowering its standards and dumbing down the curriculum. There is NO WAY you can teach a college class in five weeks unless the amount of weekly reading and assignments is about 3 times what it is in a traditional semester-length (15-week) class. Phoenix has 5-weeks classes with a work load so light that students barely learn anything--and by the way, they complain about it. No, the Phoenix brand is too tarnished. No one in higher education (aside from themselves) takes them seriously or ever will, because they will never raise their standards. That would hurt the bottom line.

I do have an idea about how they can salvage their reputation, although it would take time to do so. They are so big on getting back to basics--well, that's what they should do. Drop all of the meaningless undergrad courses (the courses into which the illiterate, unprepared students are recruited), and go back to the original premise of providing graduate degrees to working adults who already have bachelor degrees. Those are the classes for which "practitioner faculty" are best suited. If they could do that and do it really well, then over time, they might gain something akin to prestige.

@VFBL4CP-irrw made some valid points. Think that this post needs its own thread

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| 2571 views | | 6 replies (last November 15, 2018) | Reply
Post ID: @OP+VX9g1sz

6 replies (most recent on top)

@VX9g1sz-9mub - Great post and response! I have attended UoPX and other institutions as well, and work with students directly. You could not be any more correct when you noted that many students fail out b/c they are not "college ready," UoPX should go back to the days of COCA scores to ensure students can read, critically think, and calculate formulas on a basic level. I know some bachelor level programs have preliminary testing to ensure skillsets are evident but it is not "enough."

My opinion - it is like the ,movie "Ratatouille." Everyone can go to school but not everyone should or is apt enough to succeed.

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Post ID: @cuhl+VX9g1sz

Response to VX9g1sz:

Dear sir or madam, clearly you do not know the institution's history and original mission and philosophy. Are you familiar with Knowles' Theory of Andragogy? His model asserted that adult education required a theory specifically addressing adult learning and in practical terms, that instruction for adults needed to focus more on process and less on content. Sperling pioneered Phoenix on this model and never intended for UOP to be prestigious or compete with Tier 1-3 schools. It was intended to offer practical and accessible degree completion for adults who started college and for whatever reason had to abandon studies or who could not or did not immediately matriculate after high school. And at its inception few options existed for its target demographic. I began teaching at Phoenix in the early 90s. I had previous teaching experience in traditional institutions, community college, and high school. My own education was completed at both traditional and adult learning institutions in the 80s. In fact, I was Jesuit educated and consider the Jesuit approach to be among the most rigorous and demanding. My doctorate was earned at what I considered to be the best non-traditional program I could matriculate at in the 80s. There were not many to choose from then. I mention my own education to demonstrate that I have matriculated at institutions other than Phoenix so am in a position to make an informed comparison. I was originally skeptical about andragogy and the Phoenix approach, especially the substitution of team learning for individual work, and the lack of seat time compared with my own experience. After my first year I became a proponent and advocate. The students I taught in class were serious, committed, dedicated, and possessed solid, if not strong, academic skills. They did not need remediation. The average age at my campus was 34 with 7 years of professional experience. Students needed an institution that offered no frills and was completely focused on learning and degree completion. Most students had families and careers. They had no interest in socializing, although a lot of friendships emerged from the team process. I thought at the time that the vast majority of students in my courses could easily matriculate at a local public or private higher ed institution and acquit themselves very favorably. This belief permeated my thinking for about my first ten years. Changes started creeping in when Sperling went public. I considered it a HUGE mistake at the time and remember predicting it was ominous for UOP's sustainability. Gradually pressure mounted from Wall Street for continuous profit. This prompted changes to enrollment and academics, along with disproportionate investment in advertising that over the next two decades caused adverse consequences that have brought Phoenix to the precipice of failure it now confronts. Since about 2005 Phoenix has behaved much like a subprime lender before the 08-09 Great Recession. Most students today need remedial assistance and because of drastic staff reductions support is gone. I do not see how Phoenix can regain prominence. The genie is out of the bottle and can't be forced back in. The damage has been done. Despite the horrible decisions, inept strategy, numerous lawsuits, declining reputation, and plummeting enrollment, Phoenix does not and never has been a diploma mill. I have issued far more F's, D's and C's at Phoenix than I have at other institutions and have never been pressured to change a grade. Many students do flunk out and yes that is a reflection of open enrollment which I still support with a few caveats such as being college-ready. It is not a reflection of poor instruction or process; at least not at my campus. Today large class sizes, remedial students, low morale, low trust, and counter-optimal academic policies and scrutiny conspire against the future of Phoenix academics. Students in my classes constantly complain about rigor and consider me to be way too harsh in evaluating work; however they do learn and those who are committed, dedicated, and determined do graduate. Unless one has a representative sampling of Phoenix courses at multiple campuses, then one has ZERO CREDIBILITY when referring to Phoenix degrees as fake. Please stop this characterization. It is not accurate and it prompts perceptions that people making such allegations are disgruntled, a liar, or maybe even envious.

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Post ID: @9mub+VX9g1sz

@2jlp, I am the OP. I posted this originally in response to another post. Someone else gave it a thread of its own, for which I am grateful. The person who moved it gave it the title "Phoenix never had prestige." That is not what I think--I tend to agree with you that Phoenix had a pretty good reputation back in the day when its mission was focused on working professionals. That's why I suggested they go back to that model. I think that's where their sweet spot was. There even used to be a requirement that students be 25 (I think that was the age) and employed, so their target student was someone who was truly an adult, was serious, was responsible, and who would really benefit from the flexibility of online education. That's also the kind of student who would, over time, begin to lend prestige to the university and restore its reputation.

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Post ID: @3iag+VX9g1sz

@2mlv,

So true. Most of these folks have no problem plagiarizing assignments and even participation posts. It makes you wonder how it must be to have them as co-workers: drama and attitude galore, with poor performance to top it off.

Just to correct the OP... the school did have a good reputation back in the 1990's, when it offered MBA and other graduate degrees to working professionals. The debacle came when Sperling became greedy and decided to open the doors to everybody. Kind of ninja and subprime mortgages in the education market. Thinking about it... just like people who know they can't afford a home because they lack the financial conditions, but go for it nevertheless.

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Post ID: @2jlp+VX9g1sz

These students are unable to attend other colleges. We are the only ones that will accept them. Love this post. It’s the truth.

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Post ID: @2mlv+VX9g1sz

Spot on.

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Post ID: @2uwe+VX9g1sz

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