Thread regarding General Electric Co. layoffs

Worth a read from somebody from Alstom

As someone currently in the middle of this Alstom mess, I can verify this is a true possibility that Alstom may bankrupt GE power and maybe even GE whole. Alstom had 5x the headcount they needed to support their level of sales/work with dozens of factory rooftops, most less than 25% utilized. A bloated, out-of-control organization that looks like 30 year old corporate structures with redundancy throughout. Alstom corporate culture is diametrically opposed to the lean, efficient “GE way”. I am now convinced that Alstom never made money, they just used accounting games to make projects look profitable while hiding hundreds of millions in costs in “in-efficient workforce” and “quality” accounts. It has been >2 years since the Alstom acquisition and we STILL don’t know what an Alstom Steam Turbine costs to manufacture. The tangled web of factories and confusing accounting principles make it impossible…the conclusion is that Alstom did not know the costs of their products/services, therefore his not know their margins or profitability…no surprise Alstom was weeks away from bankruptcy when purchased by GE. Alstom was a government backed corporate social program to keep Europeans employed….and GE is now the host. It can’t go-on this way..the question is 12,000 enough?

So..the questions is…why in the world would GE adopt any Alstom products or processes going forward?

OP is @QFTF2jQ-zgc.

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| 4831 views | | 14 replies (last August 31, 2023) | Reply
Post ID: @OP+QGIyVow

14 replies (most recent on top)

This thread is pure ROFL.

There is a reason Alstom turbine retrofits ate GE's lunch in its home market. I'm not seeing any understanding of that in this thread.

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Post ID: @xHbye+QGIyVow

Does anyone know what GE's steam turbine offerings going forward will be? I'm assuming there is enough overlap in design space that the product portfolio would also be "simplified".

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Post ID: @nkqj+QGIyVow

Sorry but Alstom steam turbines apples to apples comparison where never and never will be superior to the older GE units. Alstom was smart they buried overhead costs and turbine accessories scope in EPC scope of supply. So, Alstom units appeared to be lower in cost as compared to GE units. Alstom steam turbine design life was never close to GE's 30 year design life. Sad part was GE sales could never think out of the box and point this out to potential clients. Does it really make any difference now? GE owns the EU PIG of a business..Alstom. GE bought them for the services side of the business, it is that simple. They did not buy them for the HRSG business .....margins are crap compared to other GE power P&L's centers. Everyone keeps blaming Alstom steam turbines for the drain on the company. Sad fact is the business in a predicted down cycle and needs to be right sized for the demand. Did GE pay too much for Alstom ..heck yeah ! Will heads still need to be cut after 12,000 are gone ...? Maybe, if GE sales does not get out and cut some deals.

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Post ID: @nzne+QGIyVow

Agree Alstom was a total mess. However technically on Steam Turbines they were far ahead of GE. Sad thing is that there was never a Business case and there was an embarrassing folly of extensive R&D developments most of which will never be manufactured. With essentially bespoke products for each sale no one in Alstom could ever have understood product cost.

I expect Steam Turbines to move lock stock to India and axe all future R&D, its just not needed.

The old management in Baden were good guys, now that the former head of Steam Turbines has been pushed out to another role, the new guy will be a untalented ruthless hatchetman to close down and transfer all knowledge (to india).

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Post ID: @gaym+QGIyVow

How can present GE management fix this mess.

Just more cutting a percentage across the board like they have been doing last 5 years will get same result. They need to bring back people who knew what they were doing, and go back to what they were doing when Power was a vertically integrated excellent technology, manufacturing, and service business.

Now it is a mediocre mess with mediocre six sigma management who really don't know what they are doing.

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Post ID: @2veu+QGIyVow

Great response and reply by the legacy Alstom employee...love it! Very good to hear your perspective!

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Post ID: @2tad+QGIyVow

This commentary below is right on.

GE really screwed up by getting rid of vertical integrated business, trashing technical experts and setting up duplicate facilities in India, China, and Atlanta. They should have stayed lean in manufacturing with technical experts running the business from Schenectady and Greenville.

Atlanta is a high cost, low quality now expertise disaster and now they are burdened with Alstom in addition to all the mistakes before this. Now GE is a high cost mess burdened with low utilization factories, and a huge and ineffective Atlanta bloated and mostly useless management structure. It is dragging down the entire GE

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Post ID: @1arb+QGIyVow

As a legacy Alstom employee that joined GE at the acquisition, I would to offer an Alstom perspective. First off, there were many of us in Alstom who thought GE was what we needed. We weren't perfect but it was a chance to merge the technical know how of Alstom with a more disciplined GE. After all it was Steve Bolze or Mark Hutchinson that said they were going to take the best of Alstom and the best of GE to produce a world class GE. My further reply is below.

As someone currently in the middle of this Alstom mess, I can verify this is a true possibility that Alstom may bankrupt GE power and maybe even GE whole.

[REPLY]: Alstom may be a contributing factor but GE has its shares of fault with built out factories in China and India along with eliminating their vertical manufacturing capabilities. I'm still not sure the value of Atlanta when you had very good capabilities in Schenectady and Greenville. Further, the industry is moving from traditional energy to renewables. GE Power will need a radical transformation - that is for sure. GE as a whole will not go bankrupt.

Alstom had 5x the headcount they needed to support their level of sales/work with dozens of factory rooftops, most less than 25% utilized. A bloated, out-of-control organization that looks like 30 year old corporate structures with redundancy throughout.

[REPLY] Yes, Alstom was people heavy - no doubt. What Alstom also had was massive technical knowledge that GE seemed to eliminate over the years. How many GE technical employees and subject matter experts were laid off so that the various leadership program employees could become executives? The brain drain must be immense. As to headcount, at legacy Alstom, I had 5 layers to the CEO (including the CEO himself). When I came over to GE, I had 6 layers to Jeff Immelt (including the CEO himself and had an EB reporting to another EB).

Alstom corporate culture is diametrically opposed to the lean, efficient “GE way”. I am now convinced that Alstom never made money, they just used accounting games to make projects look profitable while hiding hundreds of millions in costs in “in-efficient workforce” and “quality” accounts.

[REPLY] Agreed. Legacy Alstom was always people heavy and didn't value automation. The cost of people's time or automation was never valued. They didn't understand the true cost of inputs into a project. As to "accounting games" I would like to point out that GE's published financial metrics are not exactly black and white either. The SEC recently wrote GE a comment letter about their 10-K filing as being potentially misleading to investors, with half the items mentioning the reporting of numbers that were inconsistent with Generally Accepted Accounting Principles (GAAP). Also it was Capital that helped GE make their quarterly numbers when there could be a potential miss in that quarter.

It has been >2 years since the Alstom acquisition and we STILL don’t know what an Alstom Steam Turbine costs to manufacture. The tangled web of factories and confusing accounting principles make it impossible…the conclusion is that Alstom did not know the costs of their products/services, therefore his not know their margins or profitability…no surprise Alstom was weeks away from bankruptcy when purchased by GE.

[REPLY] Alstom took the most favorable tax treatment in all of the countries it operated in and balanced it against French and IFRS reporting standards. Right or wrong, that is what they did. As to the costs, one major fault of GE was the following. GE folks did not want to listen; it was the arrogance of being the acquirer. They didn't take the time to understand what we did and how we did it. You assumed you knew us and when the deal closed, it was simply remove, remove, remove or this is out of scope so we won't deal with it. I can't tell you how many times we heard that GE does acquisitions all of the time so we know what we are doing. You would get rid of the people that knew how things operated and then complain that there was no one left. Did you take the time to learn PMx?

Alstom was a government backed corporate social program to keep Europeans employed….and GE is now the host. It can’t go-on this way..the question is 12,000 enough?

[REPLY] Yes, Alstom was people heavy and GE made the Faustian deal with the French government that will undoubtedly blow up very soon. 12,000 people are not enough not just because of Alstom. The power business is moving away from traditional sources to renewables. There will be serious displacement of traditional power employees not just at GE (look at Siemens). What was valuable under GE was Power Services - the maintenance and servicing of turbines, etc. Even this, GE is apparently screwing up with Granite and Power Services moving to FieldCore and removing OT, etc. This is your bread and butter. You need these people to fix and maintain the turbines. Are your leadership program employees going to get their hands dirty and do all of this work?

So..the questions is…why in the world would GE adopt any Alstom products or processes going forward?

[REPLY] Great question. Your question asks "why...would GE adopt any." It would behoove you to try and look at what positives, strengths of benefits that could come from the Alstom side. What the acquisition showed me was that GE had all of these processes whittled down to a silo or granular level but it was hard to see the full picture. It took so many meetings to align because everyone had their little part of the process. Also everyone assumed the process worked but there were so many times when GE wouldn't believe Alstom folks until they talked it amongst themselves and then begrudgingly agreed.

[CLOSING REPLY] I had a great GE manager and loved the people at GE. I left GE a year ago after seeing how badly the acquisition was going. I feel so bad that such great employees have to go through the current challenges. The executives at GE are in their ivory tower and stuck. While you don't cut your way to greatness, I would say that cutting all of the SEBs and VPs would flatten the organization immensely and positively.

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Post ID: @1ukr+QGIyVow

lean, efficient “GE way”... you gotta be kidding, right? Sounds like you guys would fit in just fine.

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Post ID: @cuy+QGIyVow

Europe yes. Its not gonna be cheap for GE. Severance packages are not counted in weeks here. We are talking months and in some cases upp to a year if you have been with the company for a long time.

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Post ID: @fnq+QGIyVow

Definitely not written by somebody from Alstom. Maybe you should get informed about Alstom Service business before GE destroyed it.

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Post ID: @uht+QGIyVow

The original poster did not say he was from Alstom but was "in the middle of this Alstom mess" which I took to mean he was part of one of the combined teams or in finance. The subject line made it appear so and I think this was copied from the GE Power Layoff site.

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Post ID: @sgx+QGIyVow

Shouldn't have bought them then but it's too late now.

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Post ID: @rcp+QGIyVow

Reader beware, this is definitely not written by somebody from Alstom.

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Post ID: @ksz+QGIyVow

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