I want news, but I'll accept conjecture.
93 replies (most recent on top)
The Viya Workbench commercial struck me like one of those old Prego Spaghetti Sauce commercials:
Visual Studio Code?
- It's in there!
Python Notebooks?
- It's in there!!
Viya CAS actions?
- It's in there!!!
Proc libraries, and childish Art Department-isms (delight, experience, etc.)?
- They're in there!!!!
'Viya Workbench' should be called 'Prego Studio' [in my opinion].
(-- It's in there!!!!!)
"Managers can treat employees as they please, and HR always backs them up."
Disagree about the HR assertion. If a manager has valid reasons for putting an employee on corrective action and said employee is in a protected class, expect nothing more from HR than foot dragging.
From looking at job postings in IT over the past few years, I don't see other companies paying as well as SAS.
The actual answer to this question is a collaborative, several pages-long history of the past ten, maybe twenty, years of SAS as a company. …
Well said and excellent summary!
We have “religious” battles because people have such widely varying experiences at SAS.
I think the reason is that SAS never enforces professional behavior in its managers. Managers can treat employees as they please, and HR always backs them up.
The result is that SAS has some truly great managers, and some frankly abusive ones; and your experience is determined by which kind you have.
In this, SAS is worse than other large companies, at least worse than the ones I worked for.
From its beginning, SAS never enforced professional behavior in its managers. But the biggest recent cause of negative experiences is the decline in revenues.
The decline in revenues incentivizes people to leave. And we all know who leaves: the good ones, the ones who can find better jobs. The bad ones can’t find better jobs, so they remain.
Thus the decline in revenues causes a decline in the quality of management.
In addition, the decline in revenues puts pressure on both good managers and bad ones. And bad ones don’t react well to pressure; they tend to blame their employees.
My experience was similar to what @bgye+1vMsBcsG described. I left without waiting for a VRBP. But I left late in my career.
For a young person — if they get a good manager — SAS can be a positive experience. Early in your career, all you really need is the experience of working at a large company, and SAS gives you that.
And for a person late in their career, it absolutely makes sense to hang on for a few more years, if a few is all you need.
But for you people in the middle of your careers — in your 30s and 40s — I sure wish you all well.
But dang, I don’t know what you’re thinking.
@bkba+1vMsBcsG And for what it’s worth I respect your move. So many on here just whine about things but don’t do anything about it.
@bkba+1vMsBcsG My pay is competitive. Other than equity.
"I’m in it for the benefits and money".
In that case, you're at the wrong place.
SAS pays far less than most other tech companies and the benefits which were once industry leading, are now well below average.
4 years since leaving SAS and I'm now getting paid 50% more than I did at SAS plus I get heavily discounted shares throuh an ESPP. If I had stayed, I'd still be on the same pay.
I’m not in it for the good will. I’m in it for the benefits and money.
I could have taken vrbo but I’ll just let the cash keep on rolling in.
Without complaining about it or shirking my responsibilities.
"Absolutely spot-on IMHO and according to my personal experiences. And it’s a big part of why I took the VRBP in 2021."
Mine experiences as well.
"In my experience" was a sufficient replacement for "In my opinion".
“over the past five or six years, SAS has done a remarkably good job of burning whatever good will a significant percentage of its employees and ex-employees ever had for the company.”
Absolutely spot-on IMHO and according to my personal experiences. And it’s a big part of why I took the VRBP in 2021.
You forgot the "In my opinion".
Other companies may have positional BS, but the positional BS I experienced elsewhere was nowhere near as egregious as to what I've experienced at SAS. Stockholm Syndrome?
@bgye+1vMsBcsG Quite a diatribe to justify your position on the things.
“What is it about this company that results in such 'religious' battles?”
The much less time intensive and simpler answer is that there is not a single thing unique about this company in terms of ‘religious’ battles. Any company of size is like that…
Read some other company threads on here. They are just as full of dug in positional bs.
"What is it about this company that results in such 'religious' battles?"
The actual answer to this question is a collaborative, several pages-long history of the past ten, maybe twenty, years of SAS as a company.
The short, short answer is that there is a considerable difference between what SAS says about itself, and the reality of SAS, particularly working for SAS. The stage for this conversation is fifteen years (maybe more) of slow decline and increasing austerity, and the consequences of the downward spiral, predictable and unforeseen, in a population of employees, some nearing retirement and others with no portable skills because they invested heavily in the company's proprietary technologies. To add danger to the "A" plot, throw in the natural inclination of some people, whose personal prosperity is threatened, to turn on their peers. As the "B" and "C" plots, several failed initiatives and "moon shots" that have failed to regain market dominance or even establish relevance in markets increasingly dominated by companies with which SAS cannot hope to compete, in a company that has historically been well-managed enough to have a huge cash surplus. Add recurring themes of "old guard" versus "young turks", a history of "not invented here", nepotism and rank favoritism, and toxic management.
Aaaand... over the past five or six years, SAS has done a remarkably good job of burning whatever good will a significant percentage of its employees and ex-employees ever had for the company. The long slow purge began a few years before the first post-pandemic layoff, and made everythign worse.
But it's a delightful experience! Who wouldn't want that?
https://youtu.be/8O_29vx_tBM?si=L36jtxJvte30AJNJ
OMG...what a load of cr-p! Another SAS tool that nobody wants.
Hey, Viya Naysayer - "It's gonna be big!" (at the end)
https://youtu.be/8O_29vx_tBM?si=L36jtxJvte30AJNJ
Just wading into this thread for the first time...this comment amuses me...
"SAS has treated me very well and continues to do so. Sorry if that offends you."
I don't think it offends anyone. Good for you. I was also treated very well at SAS for many years, but that didn't blind me to the fact that this company has some serious problems and is on a trajectory towards a full blown implosion of some description.
That's why I got out. Too many good years left in me to risk being made redundant in my mid 50s. The job market has only got worse in the few years since I left, so I'm very pleased I'm out and have a good job in a tech company with much better prospects than SAS.
Maybe you're near retirement and will be fine with being laid off. But if you're less than 60 and would like to remain a productive member of the workforce in the tech sector, you'd be wise to be looking elsewhere. If not, fine, keep your head in the sand but don't be surprised to find yourself unemployed at some point in the not too distant future.
“ Of more interest to me is: are you the better person? And I think the answer to that question is a resounding "no". I don't really care what you think about it.”
Self flattery is the sincerest form of virtue signaling. Maybe you are a better person. Maybe you aren’t. Neither one of us knows the answer to that regardless of how much you think you know the answer. Which ironically why I have such a problem with so many things on here.
“ I'll bet you wouldn't mouth off as much to people in real life as you do online, if for no other reason than the inevitable social isolation the things you actually say would create. I suspect that already happened, though, which is why you do it here, where it's safe.”
You can bet that all you want. You would be very wrong. But again it goes to the same issue. You are willing to bet on something you truly haven’t the first clue about. Same old issue.
What is it about this company that results in such 'religious' battles?
You do sound like the kind of person who gets off on the thought that you might be smarter than someone else. No thanks. Comparisons are odious, as they say. Besides, you might discover that I'm, like, so much smarter than you that you would struggle to keep up.
Of more interest to me is: are you the better person? And I think the answer to that question is a resounding "no". I don't really care what you think about it.
I also find myself wishing this wasn't anonymous at times. I'll bet you wouldn't mouth off as much to people in real life as you do online, if for no other reason than the inevitable social isolation the things you actually say would create. I suspect that already happened, though, which is why you do it here, where it's safe.
“No one I know at SAS would disagree with most of the statements in this thread about the popularity of Viya or the post-IPO actions of any buyer.”
That’s true for me also, and I did not need to ask my friends. Most of them have college degrees, and many of them majored in quantitative fields. They’re comfortable with numbers, and they don’t deny facts.
But in this discussion, one side simply denies facts.
“Publicly available numbers. LOL”
I don’t understand why anyone would deny publicly available numbers that show ~20% declines in both revenues and headcount, with no change in direction since Viya shipped.
These are unpleasant facts, to be sure. But it does no good to deny facts; knowing them is always better than not knowing.
These numbers are published by SAS Institute. SAS doesn’t deny them. Why would you?
@awxz+1vMsBcsG maybe you should give a thought to "glass houses"
I did, and found myself wondering - do they have windows?
“ No one I know at SAS would disagree with most of the statements in this thread about the popularity of Viya or the post-IPO actions of any buyer.”
You’ve asked everyone you know at SAS about it? Weird. Or you didn’t and just like to speak for everyone else versus for the only person you can speak for which is you.
I’m good with my houses. Thanks.
I really wish this wasn’t anonymous at times. Would love to duel it out with you on Jeopardy or an iq test. Who knows the results but it sure would be fun.
Yeah, but you're not this guy:
@9rmn+1vMsBcsG
@9fzr+1vMsBcsG
@9rqx+1vMsBcsG
@9ufy+1vMsBcsG
@9bar+1vMsBcsG
are you? Either way, it's pretty hypocritical to tell someone that their experience at SAS doesn't conform to your experience, and therefore can't be true.
No one I know at SAS would disagree with most of the statements in this thread about the popularity of Viya or the post-IPO actions of any buyer. Only the trolls and apologists insist that everyone at SAS is so stupid that they don't see the writing on the wall, so numb that the "-isms" don't bother them, or so dull that they don't see a qualitative difference between the people doing the work and those confirming Dunning-Kruger is real. Surely you're not that guy? If so, empathy isn't the only thing you're lacking, so maybe you should give a thought to "glass houses".
@axzq+1vMsBcsG awwww are you upset?
It’s funny how part of the whining is about people at SAS not listening or giving any credence to opinions.
Nobody here on our knees. Wishing suffering and wanting to watch it are the words of a person lacking intelligence and empathy. i also lack empathy in this case…
SAS has treated me very well and continues to do so. Sorry if that offends you.
"Was the lack of acknowledgement of our perceptions from ‘Company Man’ or ‘Company Boy’?"
The answer to your question is: "Yes, of course it was." I have my list of yes-men (and -women) at SAS who have spent so much time on their knees that they seem to have forgotten how to stand up for themselves, but the SAS apologists here take it to a whole new level. I wish I knew who they were so that I could follow them online when they learn that their position is, regrettably, one of the ones that has been eliminated, and realize exactly how much the company values their contributions (hinto: their contributions have no value at all and they are completely replaceable).
" 175 “COBOL” "
" 13 “Viya” "
More COBOL jobs than Viya jobs out there...LMAO...
See?! No acknowledgement of how others may perceive things. We’re always wrong.
Was the lack of acknowledgement of our perceptions from ‘Company Man’ or ‘Company Boy’?
@9rka+1vMsBcsG I didn’t really need you to cherry-pick some linkedin searches but thanks. You keep on with your LinkedIn search as a meaningful way of determining sales of a product. Python and COBOL were great choices LOL.
You should be a data scientist or analyst.
@9fzr+1vMsBcsG Perhaps it will help if I do the search for you.
LinkedIn job postings, in the entire United States (quotations required):
2930 “Python”
1120 “SAS”
589 “Tableau”
509 “Power BI”
175 “COBOL”
13 “Viya”
“ Remember - At this company, your perceptions aren't real. Only the company line is real. You will never get a top manager to admit that your perceptions have merit. Never.”
Such bullsh-t. Sounds like you making excuses. Everyone else is wrong or the villain despite your heroics.
Top manager listen to my perceptions all the time. Sometimes they disagree. Other times they agree.
“But you haven't done that -- I suppose because you can't.”
No because I limit the amount of time I spend on meaningless data.
I’ve fulfilled my limit by reading this site which you probably consider legit sourced data points also.
"So people inside SAS probably know how many customers are actually relying on Viya, not just trying it."
If Viya usage was substantial, would SAS be quiet about that? Nope.
Remember - At this company, your perceptions aren't real. Only the company line is real. You will never get a top manager to admit that your perceptions have merit. Never.
@9rqx+1vMsBcsG But you haven't done that -- I suppose because you can't.
“Unless those people show their numbers, the publicly available numbers are the best ones we have.”
Publicly available numbers. LOL
LinkedIn job search? By that measure I could come up with all kinds of successful company products that are apparently failures.
"The bad news is that your hope is not a plan and it has not produced a sale. But you be you."
Your negativity is ki-ling my mojo, man.