Thread regarding Saudi Aramco layoffs

I am not an OP and I did post about completely “renovated house”. Still here and didn’t bug out yet. Yes, house is fully renovated - some materials are cheapest quality possible, but all new. Not as good as nice houses in Houston. Nothing to compare to outside villa compounds either. Yes, bachelor housing is old. A lot of other houses are old too. Lots of Europeans coming these days and accepting conditions as tax savings for them gives 2x the salary. Americans not quite as well off. Camp is depressing but outside there is a lot of brand new developments. Plenty of European and American food chains, even Raisin Canes. Aramco Saudization is at full force - supervisors in my department are all Saudis with little experience. Mine is nice, but I hear a lot of horror stories from others. Money at GC 15 is good for me so I am giving it a year. If I stay too long I will probably loose any outside credibility. I have seen GC 16 and 17’s being offered as well. Everyone comes for the money, not career.

Hey OP - let us know how cr-ppy your “renovated housing” turned out to be. You tucked tail and run back to Houston yet?

I waited ten months to start my job. During this time I was bombarded my prospective line manager to inform him if I receive any communications from any Aramco source. I stress again this was for ten months. You can imagine how unsettling it is to wait wanting to hand in your notice and get things moving on. I thought this was all a little bizarre.

Throughout this time saw a mountain of emails leading to reveing my contract requisition. Alas, it had a different name to it and not my own. Months and months passed, and a contract finally arrived but yet again it had a different name a completely different job! I was told not to worry and my department are aware of this. Anoyher one cane but jad a mispelling of my name. Again, I though this is also bizarre.

When I finally got the green light to fly out to Dammam, I was comforted I would be promptly escorted to the Aramco lounge and swiftly taken to my apartment. In reality my assigned supervisor collected me and took me to my house. It had he usual welcome message 'welcome to your new home', but you guessed it, wrong name but and I was told it didn't matter. Again, all a little bizarre but this has to be the end of it, right?

The apartment tuned out to be a small unit and just bearably suitable for bachelor status. It was very basic indeed with the standard Aramco furnishings that looked over fifty years old. On a later inspection. I couldn't figure where a foul smell was coming from in the bathroom. Closer inspection found somebody had vomitted down the sink and it was lodged under the sinkhole in my bathroom. To this day, that food item I found is something I've not eaten since. There was also some infestation of bugs. An army of ants would appear from a crack in a wall for which I later used some scotch tape to block their visits!

However, before my inspections of the unit, I was told by my supervisor to wait in the apartment to await further instructions. A week later with no Wifi, s cell phone network or a TV to keep sane I met with my team and managers. Within 20mins I realised they didn't want me to actually do the job I had been asked to do where they also sought poof of my credentials and work record. Too late, I was there now! This was now beyond bizarre amd quite surreal.

A little while later, some months I fact, I was commended by my line manager for doing a great job. I knew I truly was and burying myself in the job to while away my frustrations and the isolation I was experiencing. My line manager then kindly shared with me that I wasn't the first choice for the role but was doing a great job anyway! I was hardly offended by heartily assured there's too many wrong things with this company, the employer and the people managing staff. I now no longer believed being there was bizarre but seemingly an accepted normality.

As time has gone by, other issues ensured and were overcome only with head strong personal determination. But, this comes at a personal cost.

Lastly, during my time I met many new recruits, some who brought their families and privately shared their misgivings about why they were employed by company innthe first place. They felt misled taking up employment with the company and sold a dream which doesn't exist.

These cases aren't isolated ones but are similar experiences to new hires. They are widespread. As the company fumbles forwards with inept and distrustful management, the standards and quality of the workforce is.falling fast. The common lowball offers is not the sole cause of this but staff rention is a bigger issue to be aware of. So if you're considering taking up a role with Aramco, seriously think again.

Had a rejection last week, after yet another derisory take-it-or-leave- it offer. Yet another 6 months of everyone’s time wasted. Management complain about lack of hiring but won’t listen to the reasons - they seriously think someone of competence will move to KSA on the cheap. They probably still believe the Earth is flat also. They seem to think Allah will solve everything so maybe not far from the mark!

Now going to the backup>backup>backup candidate and we have to hire to meet the KPI! What a 💩📽️

Those recruiting for new staff must be in deep denial in convincing possible new hires to join the company is a career progression upwards with unmatched benefits. What they offer isn't always delivered which isn is the genesis of the problem for many. The low ballmofferss onky attracts lowball employees. They're in a company in solid stagnation, regression in fact, looking through rose tinted glasses as the world outside evolves.

@htob+1rsRGOKS

Very well put. I’d also add there is zero currency protection on global payroll (this was done away with also!) and so when FX moves the wrong way you will be out of pocket. A load of expats complained about this and were told “tough” by HR. The lack of annual raises means FX costs are an issue. You salary will soon stagnate.

Ditto promotions, I’ve actually seen in writing commands from EVP level stating no GC15s for expats are in the business plan in my BL. I’ve also seen other such information on no hiring over GC14 allowed for expat payrolls. I’ve not seen any expats in my AA get promoted in the last 4 years. The only area I would consider joining is Law where there is still some normality with expat hiring.

In short, you come here at your peril.

The answer is NO!
Benefits for US expats were cut once more in 2021. Now the "defined benefit" pension is gone, replaced with "defined contribution". This makes Aramco completely unattractive to current US employees.
If you are indeed employed by a US major or supermajor (i.e. if this is not a fake post), you would not even consider looking at Aramco. Aramco is only able to hire from service companies, not from operators. Plus you have to retire at 60 per local law.
One thing Aramco HR don't tell you is the "many vacation days" include weekends, so if you get 30 days off that means that number includes all weekends that happen during your vacation.
Another thing HR don't tell you about is the "Windfall elimination provision" - look this up and read carefully. For every year you work overseas US social security cuts your US earned benefit so you are reducing your US social security pension by working at Aramco.
Further cuts: Aramco allows bachelors to visit the family twice a year (upon approval by a manager) - one regular and one additional leave (used to be 2 additional leaves).
Regarding promotions - I see expats (from US and from Europe) stay in their same grade they were hired for 12-14 years. And these are very capable active qualified and hard working ones. I haven't seen any promotions among US / Europe expats. I see occasional ones among those from African and South American countries, slightly more from Asian countries (who start on a much lower base salary as it is tied to their country's of origin base pay).
On the positive side - you are relatively close to Europe and to Asia so you can travel, but then so you can from the US. And if traveling from the US you don't need to apply for an exit visa every time you wish to travel, or to pay for your family members' visas fees every year. Plus, deserts are second to none so if you are into hard-core offroading, this is the place to be (but be exceptionally careful), harder than Australian outback. One more and perhaps the most significant positive: if you are Muslim, this is your chance to visit Makkah.

I also feel that the golden age of the western expat in KSA has passed. I am sure that it was magical in the very early years but also had hardships, different hardships but hardships, nevertheless. For me, I wished I could have experienced the Steineke years or the fifties and sixties. Heck, all the decades pre 2000's look more interesting. Read that book by Tom Barger, 'Out in the Blue'. It's worth the time.

The mistake I made was to make my work meaningful and carry an ambition to make a difference. I actuslly did make a positive difference and contribution indeed, for which, is sorely missed these days after I had enough.

When I first arrived I was covered by the company's health and medical cover plan. Then after that contract was honoured I was required to find my own policy or be unable to work. 'Certain' employees didn't have to do this and some like me had to. These double standards are the start of frustrations, not to mention the various interpretations of your written contract.

The reality is that Islam encompasses all walks of life in Saudi society, culture and the workplace is by no means exempt. This is quite admirable and not a negative criticism at all and I've no problems with that at all. It's a culture I find deeply interesting after being immersed in it.

But, if you're relying on a key member of staff to pull their weight on something then forget it. 'Certain' co workers will arrive late, leave early, take a trip to Starbucks for a coffee and take days to respond to emails and tasks requiring attention. It would be a pure coincidence if they did any work!

Favoritism, and in partiular discrimination is rife. You will have to learn to turn a diplomatic cheek to this and when you are at the sharp end of it, don't expect support from anyone.as you would in the US or Europe.

The accommodation offered is tempting for the possible new employee. As it mostly free it's a real deal breaker. However, there's enough stories here to depict a different portrait than presented to you. I myself had some serious issues indeed. In short, my accomodation had damp walls on the lower half of the house and a ceiling fell down while I was asleep in bed. Maintenance said this can be fixed and I didn't need to request to be moved. Maintenance didn't resolve this at all!

If you're planning to bring your family with you it can present wonderful opportunities and great memories for life. Families are ordinarily more settled than those who come alone who live in many relative isolation. Schooling has reasons for some concern as the standard isn't wonderful and teachers are often warned by the school principle not to push or discipline the children. Because of this many children grow very, very lazy. Wives, not all, also struggle where some live with depression and mental health. A weekly trip to Bahrain helps but only so far.

My only personal regret, and for you too is to never had worked at the company in the 70s, 80s and 90s when it was the real golden age of pay, benefits and a carreer step up the ladder.

You will meet some really great people and families living in the camp. Their kindness, love and humility will always remain with me. There are also many there too who have become soured and soiled by the place. They've been there and too long or waiting to be laid off. This resonates back into the workplace.

Whatever you choose, I wish you well in your professional adventures!

Does "ethnics" include a dozen Saudi's holding prayer in front of your office door twice a day?

Aramco is not an easy place to work at; too much politics, too little meaningful work. Also, if you hate the sight of “ethnics”, you’re just going to be angry all the time.

Not on current salaries you can’t. Everyone saves, saves and saves. What little left goes on Umrah and trips back to Pakistan. And the schooling on camp is far from leading unless you compare against local KSA schools.

Come on, the Kingdom is waiting for you, top class schooling system for your children, almost free accommodation with the latest utilities in a multicultural neighborhood. At 4pm you will start enjoying your most precious hobbies and from there you can explore the world.

Personally 40%~60% isn’t worth it, given there’s next to no pay progression, I’ve actually gotten similar uplifts moving jobs back home. But it clearly works for some, based on the new faces I’ve seen, mainly those near career end or from TWCs.

Also, IMO, a big turning point for expats at Aramco was when the old guard (monarchy) gave way to the young bucks. They didn't see the need to give expats the perks that they had been offered in decades past. Plus, their penchant for cheap third world labor and professionals is strong. Probably partly responsible for the Saudi Council of Engineers scrutiny of engineers in the kingdom. Loads of TWC professional coming to Saudi these days, the price is right. The US isn't immune from things of this nature, look at Tyson foods for instance.

If they offer you 40-60% rise your current salary, then you could go for it. Make sure your spouse is OK with the move. Whatever was mentioned down there is how the things are.

The jump the shark moment for Aramco was when the expat Engineers had to start proveing to the Saudi Council of Engineers that they were indeed engineers, every few years

The fact is that earlier in Aramco's history expats were more necessary They were a resource, prized, to be taken care of, the skids of life in KSA were 'greased' so to speak, life was easier. Now you are expected to pay for everything and pretty much make your own way within KSA, more or less. The 'golden era' of the prized western expat has passed, you got there too late, sorry.

Depends on the $$$ on the table and your point in life. It’s just a money play, nothing else. If the numbers work then go for it, but as others have said, have an exit plan and a number in your head you need to hit as a target. Having a single $$$ target and focusing on that like a laser is the only way to avoid all of the other toxic cr-p this place generates.

Ignore all of the marketing junk from recruitment, and the kool aid drinkers on aramcoexpats.com who are largely paid up shills, or Muslims that think KSA is some kind of paradise. It ain’t, no self respecting professional with a life in the west really wants to be here.

The data and my own personal experience have shown me that for some it works out, others not so much. Roll the dice and take your chances.

i have joined from Houston last year, i am not happy about my decision at all. Looking forward another expat role in US based company

I would say if the numbers look good to you, enough to be life-changing, fast track your retirement, then go for it. More importantly, wife and kids (if you have any) have to be onboard if you decide to go. There is a hint of truth from all the negative postings here, which should give you some preconceptions. To balance it out, go over the Aramco Expat site as well. Go there with very low expectations and always keep in mind that you are there to build wealth at the shortest possible time. If you walk in there with this mindset, then you will be less frustrated and anything over and above will be just gravy. If you are the type of person who can easily adapt and makes the best out of any situation, then you will be just fine.

First off, this website is called The Layoff. I’ve rarely met someone who was laid off to post positive things about the particular company. That said, there are valid comments too. As a 30 year veteran, I recommend you don’t base your decision totally on this website’s comments. Aramco is, more often than not, a great place. If you have spent your life is the USA, it will be a great experience to live in the middle east and have the time and money to travel. Re the housing, yea it’s not palatial. But maybe Americans expect huge places. As a European, I always found the housing plenty big, and comfortable. Re the air quality, yea, it’s not pristine. As I type this, I see that Aramco and Houston are in the same 51-100 band on the IQAir website that tracks air quality. Though, usually Saudi air quality (along with all the Middle East, and much of Asia), is not great. Invest in a few higher quality air filtration systems and your indoor air will be great. Use common sense regarding exercising etc outside just as you would on a hot day in any city.
Life in Saudi does take adjusting to. Though with an open mind and a sense of adventure, the pros significantly outweigh the cons. That’s my honest opinion.

Won’t last 5 mins here with that kind of attitude I’m afraid. Verification means nothing, contracts are fluid, nothing is certain. Prepare to be immensely disappointed.

Pro tip: invest in a good pair of ear defenders to help manage the AC racket.

Then you will be out of there. My advice. Save yourself the bother. The accommodation is abysmal.

I'm the owner of the post. The question is real, not company HR. I don't think they have time for that.

“Completely Renovated” = I know what I got and I asked for verification before accepting. Yes, it’s possible. Yes, it’s renovated. I am setting my expectations at the right level regarding quality, but new shelving, new bathrooms, hardwood (maybe pergo but that’s fine) floor instead of brown carpet is way better than the 40 year old cabinets. I know what you mean by “new brown carpet”, but they are actually gutting out the houses - if you live there or know anyone there you will know about it. If they don’t keep up their end of the agreement then I will be out of there. I have no issue with that.

Good luck with the “completely renovated ” houses on camp. A lick of paint, a new front door, maybe new Aramco brown carpet (that will shed for months and is if the lowest quality). My advice to you is lower your expectations to zilch now, or you won’t last long. Also even having such a promise in writing is worthless in KSA, let’s hope they keep their end of the bargain.

Not so sure the post is fake. I am in Houston and also with one of the majors. I’ve been offered SC 15 position and will be departing in a few weeks. If all goes well my family will join in a few months. I’ve made direct contact with current expats in KSA. There are pros and cons but for me the balance is OK. I recommend you talk to someone there. Old houses at the camp are being completely renovated - I managed to negotiated for one of them. I have no aspiration to a management position so it’s
Ok if they reserve them for locals. I am not expecting any upwards trajectory at my current company so I need to start jumping ships. At this stage of my life I see this as an adventure. Get the right info from a direct source and then make a decision.

Get some honest feedback from a western expat who has been there. You can tell by word choice in some of the earlier posts that not all posters are American/ US. Hopefully you can find one. It worked out OK for me but I believe I got in on the tail end of the 'better times'. It will be a gamble and a risk, especially if you uproot your family. And things are never quite what you imagined they would be. Plus, ASC can, but not always, be
misleading.

Fake post, no one in a major is risking their job security for Aramco, specially after 2020 layoffs.

A lot of colleagues ask me and my answer is the same, go but don't expose your family and don't burnt your ships, you only need a couple of months to see if Aramco match your expectations.

Don't sent any emails, you know the target is to fire by right cause so you will be layoff loosing your severance if you are less than 10 years.

For money, you will risk your health from cancerous air (fact), polluted water (fact) and potentially mould and asbestos where you will live. Many do.
Not mentioned much here, you need a visa to leave the country. Always pi---d me off and didn’t sit well with me psychologically. Others don’t care.
Boils down to what you and your family can accept for greenbacks.

@ anomymous Post ID: @pdl+1rsRGOKS:

It would be great if you have time for a quick chat. Have to make the decision pretty soon.
Lets chat offline. Lets connect, my email is: companyquestion2024@gmail.com

How old are you? A few years from retirement looking to top up the pension then might be worth the squeeze, Do you have kids? Does your wife work? Do you value your career? Would you put their health at risk to come here? Are you prepared to sell your soul for $$$…

Aramco is a dead end professionally, you will stagnate, it will frustrate you if you value your work. Your career is ends the moment you step into KSA.

Most of the posts on here are pretty accurate, it’s a sad state of affairs. This is one of the few places where you can find accurate info on Aramco.

A lot of us were ex oil majors prior to joining Aramco. About 20-30 years ago Aramco was good in terms of working conditions for expats compared to other oil majors. That incrementally started to change and over the last 10 years the acceleration towards dysfunction and a dystopian reality increased. You will stagnate professionally, regardless of discipline or department. You are the hired help and nothing more. You might get a certificate of appreciation for all your efforts, an E merit and escape layoff that year…and if that is something you take pleasure in then Aramco might be the place for you…

Bad news for you....most of the posts on here maybe negative (and from folks on the biased side), but most posts are true or have some truth in them. I will TRY to be positive for you. You happieness there will come from your and your family's ability to adapt. Your work will most likely not be value added for the first 5 years so do not count on professional satisfaction without a significant lowering of your expectations. The problem with this is, once you do this to your work eithic, its very hard to return to the real world. But there A LOT of other things that will either make you and your family unhappy or you,ll adapt and the other perks will out weigh the sh-t. If you need someone to chat with and are from the Houston area, I don't mind chatting with you. Good luck.....but I think you already know your decision based on your post and your gut.....and your wife's gut.