Has anyone successfully negotiated a higher severance payout than the standard IBM Performance Separation Plan which includes 1 month of severance?
Either individually or with the help of an attorney.
23 replies (most recent on top)
I was RA'd in April 2023 after being re-deployed (band 9 with only 10 jobs and high competition).
The "Severance" (which it isn't ) was 30 days
U.S.
https://entrevestor.com/home/entry/nb-cyber-sector-regroups-after-ibm-job-losses
https://www.reddit.com/r/IBM/comments/14kdmi3/ras_in_fredericton_canada_today/
Had no idea Fredericton had an office or 100 people. I’ve been to the Halifax office at Purdies warf years ago. Been to the Montreal office on Rene levesque near bell centre, been to all 3 Ottawa offices on riverside drive and 340 Albert and Gatineau/ottawa river, and been to Calgary office as well and a half dozen in the GTA over the years (Markham, bloor, York, Spadina, 3 wellington). The Fred location shocks me.
As far as I know Montreal/Calgary only have Consulting & Sales (could be wrong, it's a big company) and there haven't been any big RA's in the last year in Consulting or Sales, just performance PIP's (more all the time though).
Some teams in Markham still took small hits from what I hear, but not like Fredricton or Ottawa. Also, since there are new positions in Markham you might actually survive an RA (in theory). Hard to do that in a location with no new seats allowed.
Was it only Fredricton (100 layoffs) and Ottawa (140) that took place last year? How sure are you about those numbers? And that means Toronto/Markham, Montreal, Calgary didn’t get touched?
The comments about no hiring in Ottawa was about Software division - they're the ones that have decided to go co-located with the 'strategic location' plan. Meanwhile IBM Consulting is still hiring in Ottawa, since they do a lot of work there, mainly around the federal government. All the IBM Ottawa jobs I could see on LinkedIn were Consulting. Meanwhile the remnants of Cognos are part of Software so they're the ones being forced to backfill their teams with people in Markham.
I see postings on LinkedIn for jobs at the Ottawa site. As for the comment on 140 layoffs at Ottawa site was that total in Data and AI or in the whole city (even those work from home) at IBM.
Hiring is restricted , at least for Data and AI, in Ottawa (it has been for at least 2 years) , IBM sold the Riverside buildings a few years back and rented one of them, the RA that occurred in May/June 2023 saw 140 IBMers cut from the Riverside campus and some 100 or so from the Fredericton office. On that RA, Managers could not pick anyone from the Markham lab (even if the employee was marked as low performer). It was said that Markham was a protected site. I agree that IBM is not checking out from Canada but it seems to be doing it from Ottawa and Fredericton.
Not sure how that is even possible not hire at Rividerside campus seeing as though the Fed. Govt of Canada is it's main client.
My understanding is the groups in Riverside Drive aren't allowed to add new hires locally, only in Markham. I've seen jobs in Global Marketplace for positions in Markham where the hiring manager is in Ottawa. So the team will be increasingly split between two locations, both of which will have a hard 3-days/week RTO, even though all of their meetings are webex anyways.
So if Markham is strategic to IBM software what does mean for 3755 Riverside Drive (former Cognos).
IBM Software is now limiting hiring to 'strategic' locations, and Markham (Ontario) in Canada is one of the 5 or 6 (?) worldwide 'strategic' locations. They are hiring a ton of people there right now, enough that there goal of colocating teams is going to run into a lack of seats for people to sit in.
In any case IBM is definitely not 'checking out' on Canada.
IBM is checking out on Canada because of these laws. Just like they did in France and Italy
Regarding getting a lawyer, I would only do it if they’ll work on contingency so that interests are aligned. Would make zero sense to pay a lawyer an hourly rate where the lawyer gets paid no matter what the outcome
26 weeks in Canada is much better than the 3 months in the US….another example of the US worker getting the shaft
For the Canada question down below - the answer is yes. Yes, there are many examples, yes you can negotiate for more and yes, 1 week per year of service is low. If you are looking for concrete examples for higher awards, there are many out there - obviously, the ones you'll find searching the internet are those that went to court. Most recently in 2023 there was a huge award given and recently upheld in superior court in Milwid v IBM Canada (27 months + restricted stock units for a Band 10). There are also many other awards: 2017 Patterson v IBM Band 6 (18 months), 2016 Quinn v IBM Band 7 (20 months), 2010 Waterman v IBM Band 7 (20 months), 2015 Liboiron v IBM Band 6 (20 months), 2018 Frith v IBM Band 9 (19 months), 2016 Lee v IBM Part-time Band 6 (21 months). But keep in mind - there are many other precedent-setting awards in Canada. 2023 Ly--h v Avaya - he got 30 months' notice. There is this thing in Canada called "exceptional circumstances" and it's sort of still a grey area - but courts are standing up for the little guy so to speak (Milwid v IBM and Ly--h v Avaya and Currie v Nylene Canada) and have been given better awards in excess of 24 months which was typically reserved only for executive positions. In the case of Ly--h - his exceptional circumstance was that he was a "key performer" (aren't we all?). You should always get legal advice and know that there are two types of lawyers - those that charge hourly (e.g. $300-$1000/hr) and those that are on a contingency fee (e.g. 25%-30% of the settlement awarded). And you should understand the implications of each. One thing you won't find on the internet are all of those who negotiated better settlements without going to court because they had to sign non-disclosure agreements. Good luck, everyone's situation is different. But a search of your "bardal factors" in Canada + exceptional circumstance precedents will give you an idea of what you can expect. But 1 week per year of service is not a fair offer in Canada. Take your letter of employment and go talk to a lawyer.
In Canada, if you're willing to go to court if necessary, you may be able to get up to 1 month per year of service, depending on your specifics. The longer you've been at IBM and the more difficult to replace your job, the higher the amount. So far I find legal firm Samfiru Tumarkin to have taken the lead in terms of clearly stating this (they have done radio shows, a YouTube channel, and online severance calculator). If you end up engaging them, please come back and let us know how you fared.
Correct typo in previous post:
Any example on separation package from IBM Canada? Any experience on negotiating a better deal than 1-week-per-year-no-more-26-weeks?
Thanks
Any example on separation package from IBM Canada? Any experience on negotiating a better deal than 1-week-per-month-no-more-26-weeks?
Thanks
Thank you for sharing
https://pdfhost.io/v/41Vv4rVGy_Microsoft_Word_PSP_JULY_19_2021doc
Why does the 2021 document writes July 2023?
I'm in IBM software. Interesting that 3 months is also offered. I saw an older article where IBM standardized on 1 month packages -- https://www.computerworld.com/article/3040562/ibms-one-month-severance-offer-means-a-bitter-end-say-laid-off-workers.amp.html
Are you IBM software or ibm consulting ? is this the same as PIP ? i know RA is different where you are offered 3 months of severance for your role being eliminated
i didn't try, but maybe i should have. This was what they sent me when i was letgo
https://pdfhost.io/v/41Vv4rVGy_Microsoft_Word_PSP_JULY_19_2021doc