Thread regarding General Motors layoffs

It's like using a penny in your house's fuse box as a replacement fuse, then complaining that dimes are defective because they don't fit in the fuse box.

Neither coin was designed to be a fuse, you just get away with using the penny. Before you burn down your house, anyway.

Was the electric Mack garbage truck also designed to be a snow plow?

Sounds like NY was trying to use it for a different purpose because they'd gotten away with it with their old diesel trucks,

When they used the garbae truck as a garbage truck, did it work? If so, they shouldn't have any complaints.

New York found out. When regular Americans find out, it's game over for electric vehicles.

New York abandons electric snow plows
https://www.msn.com/en-us/weather/topstories/new-york-abandons-electric-snow-plows/ar-AA1jyazz

This winter, New York won't be using electric snow plows. Failure of vehicle tests has caused the local snow removal company to revert to diesel-powered vehicles.

The New York Department of Sanitation had three years ago, requested several Mack electric trucks. Primarily intended to clean streets and remove garbage, one of these trucks had been fitted with a snow plow as part of an experiment. This decision was unsurprising since in the "Big Apple", it's standard practice to fit garbage trucks with plows.

The experiment was not successful. The plow, dragging across the road and the snow buildup in front of it, created substantial resistance. Moreover, the plow required almost constant movement, eliminating the option for loading pauses. Consequently, the electric vehicle's power supply was insufficient for the demands of a New York winter, known for its heavy snowfall, as reported by the website.

They recalled the Samsung Note 7, so not "nothing risk"

Laptop fears? Well lemme see, a laptop has maybe a 3000 milli amp hour battery. A Tesla has for example, a100 kilo Watt hour battery bank, So if the lappy catches fire there's 0.01 kWh of chemical energy to cause mayhem. LOL, the Tesla has the equivalent of 10,000 laptop batteries all nicely packed together. I dunno know, maybe do you think that might make a difference if the EV lights off?

Auto execs are coming clean: EVs aren't working

https://www.businessinsider.com/auto-executives-coming-clean-evs-arent-working-2023-10

Will you be able to get homeowners insurance if you have a cell phone?

Or a laptop?

It could burn down your house.

Better throw away your cell phone and any other cordless electronic device, since the have LiOn batteries.

The risk is too great.

Will large cargo ships that transport EV’s be insurable now that we know EV battery fires are not extinguishable in an efficient and timely manner, as evidenced by the recent ship fire ? This could possibly ad an additional cost to EV’s. Will multi level indoor parking garages garages allow thermally hazardous EV’s in ? If an EV fire causes catastrophic injury or death to nearby people or property, who will be liable ? Will EV auto premiums be unaffordable due to the added risk ?

https://justthenews.com/politics-policy/energy/iea-says-50-million-miles-transmission-needed-experts-say-its-easier-said

Duh

Or there's a state legislature that wants to favor oil fueled cars.

I would buy a Chevy Bolt if the price was $14,900 with $7,500 tax credit. Gotta figure the new Pa state annual registration charge of $260 for EV’s into the investment equation vs $51 for gas engine cars. Somebody realized they were losing tax revenue from gasoline.

Gotta talk to OPEC about gas prices.

Most people don't want EVs. That's why they are sitting in lots. There are multiple sources and polls that say that EVs aren't popular and that they aren't selling well. If EVs were saleable, we wouldn't be having this discussion. Instead, they have to be mandated into existence. They need tax-payer subsidies. They need endless propaganda.
In China there are acres of unsold electric vehicles (including cars, vans and bikes) just sitting there rotting.
https://www.bloomberg.com/features/2023-china-ev-graveyards/
Why is that??? Let's be honest here. We know why.

Too close to an election year for the price of gas to spike over $5 a gallon . That’s what set the rush to EV in motion to begin with.

on combustion - even if 100% of your electricity supply is coal, an EV is cleaner than most gas cars (basically close to a hybrid like a Prius). And most people don't have 100% coal as their electricity input.

There's too much of a cost premium and people can't afford them.

And the small group of people who can afford EVs buy Tesla.

If EVs are all about the climate, then ammonia engines are where its at!

https://clintel.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/08/WCD-version-081423.pdf

Toyota does it again!

https://www.enginelabs.com/engine-tech/engine/corrosion-of-conformity-toyota-takes-aim-at-evs-with-ammonia-engine/

https://twitter.com/claushetting/status/1691807290783920324

Pay check to pay check says it all, no matter what angle you're selling today.

remote combustion is still combustion, or does that not effect the climate?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fraser_Institute

The Fraser Institute is a libertarian-conservative Canadian public policy think tank...

The program's funding came from Rothmans International and Philip Morris.[18] When Rothmans was bought by British American Tobacco (BAT) in 1999, its funding ended

The letter highlighted the institute's 1999 publication Passive Smoke: The EPA's Betrayal of Science and Policy,[20] "which highlighted the absence of any scientific evidence for linking cancer with second-hand smoke...

At this time the CEO of BAT's Canadian subsidiary, Imasco, was also on the Fraser Institute's board of trustees.[19] The Fraser Institute ceased disclosing its sources of corporate funding in the 1980s

n 1999, the Fraser Institute was criticized by health professionals and scientists for sponsoring two conferences on the tobacco industry entitled Junk Science, Junk Policy? Managing Risk and Regulation and Should Government Butt Out? The Pros and Cons of Tobacco Regulation. Critics charged the institute was associating itself with the tobacco industry's many attempts to discredit authentic scientific work

The Fraser Institue claimed in 2014 that "There has been no statistically significant weather change for the last 15-20 years."[21] Additionally, in response to a 2019 report published by Environment and Climate Change Canada, the Fraser Instute claimed in an article that "Most of what people are noticing, of course, are just natural weather events." The rest of the article goes on to portray the report as hype and misleading.[22] These claims contradict the consensus of experts in the field and are not in line with scientific data regarding Climate change

The institute has received donations of hundreds of thousands of dollars[28] from foundations controlled by Charles and David Koch, with total donations estimated to be approximately $765,000 from 2006 to 2016.[29] It also received US$120,000 from ExxonMobil in the 2003 to 2004 fiscal period.[30] In 2016, it received a $5 million donation from Peter Munk, a Canadian businessman

In 2012, the Vancouver Observer reported that the Fraser Institute had "received over $4.3 million in the last decade from eight major American foundations including the most powerful players in oil and pharmaceuticals". According to the article, "The Fraser Institute received $1.7 million from 'sources outside Canada' in one year alone, according to the group's 2010 Canada Revenue Agency (CRA) return...

Maybe this will help... people with real degrees in climatology and who publish research (which stands scrutiny IE not opinion pieces but real data) are no where united in the man-made part of the discussion. Which has little to do with the 5jzw post, which seems to suggest that batteries would have a much greater impact in buildings than in cars. I think everybody agrees the climate changes all the time and for lots of reasons. Plimmer from Australia recently published the effects on the changes in the discovery of 70 something underwater volcanoes and how they are influencing ocean currents.

https://www.fraserinstitute.org/article/putting-the-con-in-consensus-not-only-is-there-no-97-per-cent-consensus-among-climate-scientists-many-misunderstand-core-issues

Does Fox News actually cover this stuff?

"IF there is such a thing as man made climate change - a topic very much debated by climatologists"

dead giveaway right there, dude. turn off Fox News.

IF there is such a thing as man made climate change - a topic very much debated by climatologists. Making every car a BEV addresses at most 8% of carbon emissions (if you absolutely ignore the building and consuming of more coal in coal fired power plants as China has done - hundreds more). Sigh, right there this doesn't make sense. Adding more cooling towers is huge as well. The largest green house gas is water vapor. So making more of it is an absurd counter to the green arguments.

Reducing carbon emissions by 23% is on paper achievable by putting batteries into homes and then using them to accomplish peak shaving. See, car utilization is only 4% for the average owner. Homes and even commercial building energy use is constant.

How does promoting BEVs make any sense at all in light of these well known and published studies by VW, NREL and a host of similar findings in Europe?

Smaller, lighter cars with higher fuel economy coupled with power grid lowering strategies like peak shaving produces much order of magnitude greater results.

"sounds like what I imagine this forum would have been like when Hondas and Toyotas started appearing in the US"

That's your perception. But what is the reality?
Most Americans still don't want an electric car — and many EV buyers end up going back to gas
https://www.businessinsider.com/most-americans-dont-want-an-electric-car-2023-10?op=1
"In a recent poll conducted by Yahoo Finance and Ipsos, 57% (that's a majority...) of respondents said they were not likely to choose an EV when they buy their next car."

This "nobody will buy EV" sentiment sounds like what I imagine this forum would have been like when Hondas and Toyotas started appearing in the US.

It's also amusing that people down-vote things that are true but they just don't like hearing it.
The person with the po1itical attack - their comment was removed and all mentions of the comment were removed. Interesting huh?
Ad hominem attacks AND censorship are the last resort of those who can't defend their indefensible beliefs and positions.

It's amusing that as the electric vehicles pile up on lots and the issues multiply, the climate cult gets testy - they always resort to ad hominem attacks and baseless accusations. There's no getting around the failures and the inevitable endgame - consumer rejection of a product with so many issues (cost, range, materials, slave labor, short product life, etc). You can't guilt people into buying undesirable products with high prices and poor utility.

Swedens Ev Volta trucks are planning bankruptcy according to Bloomberg. This is the true future of EVs. Limited like a tether ball on a pole so are these EVs. The ball always comes back around and hits those silly enough to buy one in the head. The place only for EVs would be metro businesses. A good tax write off and depreciation but not for everyday consumers. Marketing is targeting the wrong buyer.

@suu+1p6MNI6h

Your "argument" has nothing to do with EVs. It's the same situation with a 50k ICE vehicle.

The problem isn't EVs, it's expensive vehicles that middle class people can't afford.

Here is the trend :

We ain't buyin' it.

What are regular people buying? Old junky gas vehicles. 6 months of automotive tech school. Put new engine and new transmission in. Change out all rubber belts hoses. New ECM. Pads rotors. Done. Tech school is about 2,000.00 every town has a voc. tech with night classes. If car over 25 years old it is classed an antique and license/tax is about 60.00 per year depending on different states. Hey a new car AND a new marketable skill. As funny as it sounds this is truly what is starting to happen in the common people arena. Longevity and affordability do not describe Evs not to mention they could get you stuck out somewhere unsafe and not near plug ins.

EVs are a future built on sand foundation but politian's love the investment dividends for now.

Best vehicles I’ve ever owned for gas miliage , a Pontiac G5 XFE, and a Chevy Cruze LS, were built at a place that doesn’t build cars anymore

EVs go hand-in-hand with injections/masks/mandates, Ukraine support, LGBT+, voting by mail, and the conspicuous absence of critical thinking. Everything will come to an end when these vehicles will start to break en masse, and a "simple" repair will be upwards of $10K.

Here's a glimpse into GM's EV sales viability:
A $50,683 car with 6% Michigan sales tax and a 6% interest rate for 5 years would have a $1,038.64/month car payment.

*Between 55 percent to 63 percent of Americans are likely living paycheck to paycheck.
*Three in four Americans who earn less than $50,000 are living paycheck to paycheck, compared to roughly two in three of those making $50,000 to $100,000.
*Paycheck-to-paycheck living can result in missed or late payments, which can cause your credit score to drop — leading to fees, penalties, higher financing costs and difficulty qualifying for future credit.
https://www.bankrate.com/finance/credit-cards/living-paycheck-to-paycheck-statistics/