Thread regarding IBM layoffs

The trimming continues even outside of consulting. IBM indicated a slow down in consulting on the 1st q 2023 earnings report thus precipitating consulting division actions. NOTE consulting has a very very high attrition rate, so a lot of the trimming can be absorbed. This article indicates IBM is also trimming within Infrastructure BUT is quietly trying to get impacted folks to take retirement. (Power and storage within NA was impacted in June) Keep your eyes on IBM’s 2nd q restructuring charges as that will tell how hard they have been pursuing this strategy. What’s old is new again.

https://www.calcalistech.com/ctechnews/article/ryacsbqqh

WARN has no teeth because the Fed hasn't enforced it in decades Especially against big Corps like IBM You can forget about any restitution on that front. If your over 50 you might get something with the right representation. But if you sign forget about anything as sure as death and taxes.

Here's information on the WARN Act.

See page 19 of the Worker's Guide for information on penalties to employers
https://www.dol.gov/agencies/eta/layoffs/warn

PENALTIES FOR FAILURE TO GIVE NOTICE
Are there penalties to the employer for violating the WARN advance notice
requirement?

Yes. An employer who violates the WARN Act notice requirement is liable to
each affected employee for an amount equal to back pay and benefits for the
period of violation up to 60 days. An employer who fails to provide notice as
required to a unit of local government is subject to a civil penalty not to
exceed $500 for each day of violation. The penalty may be avoided if the
employer satisfies the liability to each affected employee within three weeks
after the closing. In any suit, the court, in its discretion, may allow the pre-
vailing party a reasonable attorney’s fee as part of the costs. These are the
only remedies that WARN provides

See page 8 of the Worker's Guide for information on WARN Enforcement
https://www.dol.gov/agencies/eta/layoffs/warn

WARN ENFORCEMENT
WARN is enforced through the U.S. District Courts. Workers, their represen-
tatives, and units of local government may bring individual or class action
suits against employers who they believe to be in violation of the Act. The
U.S. Department of Labor has no authority or legal standing in any enforce-
ment action and cannot provide specific binding or authoritative advice or
guidance with respect to individual situations. The Department does, how-
ever, provide assistance in understanding the law and regulations to individ-
uals, firms, and communities.

How many people in IBM Consulting even know WTF Apptio is?

"Consulting within IBM is going to shrink pretty aggressively, and their offerings are going to get much more focused on enterprise/hybrid cloud/SW modernization offerings..."

In other words, IBM is going to focus on what it can realistically sell and what it can realistically deliver to clients. It may be a much smaller operation, but one that can be profitable if they play their cards right. I wish them well.

For what it's worth, let me share you my experience. I was a band 8 employee with close to 15 years experience in IBM. Got laid off in May. It was a shock and could relate to the phase you've been going through. I did the same thing of talking to attorneys to make a case for longer notice period or better severance package. It wasn't helpful. They needed very strong case to prove that it was not a business decision but something else. It is a losing cause. This took like 10 days and then I started trying real hard to find a position in consulting (I was in IBM Software then). I got leads here and there but there wasn't any position readily available. Even in the last week, I was trying to make it happen talking to VP level people in consulting but they could not make it happen. Towards the end, I went back to my manager and pleaded to give me few more weeks and without a concrete offer he didn't want to do anything. So, my IBM journey finally ended. But, when you give up completely and just spend this time on just building your products or improving your skills, things change like magic. Within one month of leaving, I could land an offer which is 50% more than what I used to get at IBM. More than a band 10 pay to be honest and director level role in the new company. So, my suggestion is forget about all these things, start with a new focus on improving skills/networking and all that stuff, be persistent and you will be rewarded handsomely. Being fired from IBM is a blessing in disguise, trust me.

IBM seems to be restructuring their consulting division quite aggressively. (look at all of the exec announcements) The announced purchase of Apptio just plays into that restructuring quite nicely. They are integrated into most of the “enterprise fortune 1000 accounts already, and this gives the consulting arm yet another offering to go chat with their end users about. Given the timing of Apptio, and how IBM intends to account for it, it says the restructuring will be well on its way by end of 2023. Consulting within IBM is going to shrink pretty aggressively, and their offerings are going to get much more focused on enterprise/hybrid cloud/SW modernization offerings

Take a look at all the leadership announcements going on internally and you’ll see who’s been RAed. Very senior people, CIO, VP procurement, very senior consulting VP and the list goes on… it’s not just band 6-9 folks.

Don’t waste time applying within IBM. You were likely selected based on your physical geographic location, PMR (over1.0 = bullseye on your back), and time in band. In other words IBM thinks you’re overpaid, live somewhere too far away from clients, and since haven’t been promoted in a certain time period must not have what it takes…key words here are IBM thinks. Performance has very little to do with RAs…just the previous 3 factors.

You’re done in eyes of IBM for any IBM position, move on to the plethora of better employers. You’ll be 5 times happier 6 months from now.

Do they feel their layoffs are based on performance? GE aways does lots of layoffs and seems to often hire back the people after a few years if they apply

I came from GTS way back when rather than GBS, but from what I saw there were very few surprises when it came to RAs, at least among the management. Sure, someone can claim ignorance about "the actual list", but ask any 1st line, 2nd line or project manager and they could tell you with probably 99% accuracy which employees were on the chopping block. Time spent in band, what they were getting paid, what their PBCs were like, were they on the bench, etc. There is definitely some automation involved, but all the inputs to that automation are known months and sometimes years in advance.

Why then, do they spring all this on the employee at the last moment, instead of "giving them time to search for another role"? Well there's your answer right there. Once you are on the RA list IBM corporate wants you gone. That's it...they don't want you back, they don't want to see you ever again, in any capacity. The "time to search for another role" is a legal nicety, but it's no secret that RA targets are almost impossible to hire without jumping through a lot of very high hurdles.

It's crazy, and totally unlike how many companies operate, but that's how they roll.

Is the senior partner (service line leader) making it up that he didnt know about whos going to be on the RA list until the last day . Does HR run some algorithm to determine and forces the name down the service line leader for whom to put on RA. Looking back i think they had it planned couple of months in advance and he would have def been consulted about it. So why then they want to wait till last moment instead of giving employee more time to search internally for a role. i would understand if it was a PIP they dont want the person in IBM

There's no point suing. Take all the money you can, go to a competitor, take your customers with you and sc--w IBM over while earning a good commission. Nothing more satisfying than that.

I heard on Friday in the sourcing division. Most with over 25 years of service.

When a company wants you out, it's not worth staying...either for you or for the company. You might be able to wheedle a bit more cash out of the company, but the working relationship is now so toxic that you won't want to be there, and they didn't want you there anyway...

@umb+1nAqHh66 here again. I can assure you, I know this topic inside out. (But you don't say how old you are).

Just to be clear. You seem to fixate on WARN. Forget WARN. Forget negotiation with IBM for a better severance. Forget internal jobs. You might get lucky, but they want you out, and track these things. Should you sign, you can still sue. but only through arbitration.

So, if you want to really give it a shot, BEFORE you sign, find out and call Wright & Greenhill in Austin. Unlike the other referenced, they have actually achieved results for their clients. Information is power.

Don't hesitate. Know your options. The only way you lose this thing is by not calling someone like https://www.llrlaw.com/ now. IBM's only hope is that you don't file whatever it is you need to file NOW. That's it. He-l, even Trump's EEOC found that IBM discriminated based on age. AGAIN. MOVE NOW. KNOW YOUR RIGHTS. Don't hesitate.

Thanks for the responses. So i understand that the separation agreement that IBM makes you sign is not the same as severance. In that case the hope was WARN act would kick in to get additional notice time and severance pay in my state. I see IBM filed WARN notice in April for state of CA so people there got lucky with 60 day notice instead of standard 30 day but given that WARN act includes remote workers as well should it be that difficult to prove that they laid off more than 50 people in past 30 day rolling period if their books were examined. Also is it worth pursing the limited internal positions on RA or they would not be approved once you are on RA even if the other hiring manager supports you

I was impacted by the May RA. When I found out in April I immediately reached out to several law firms who had previously sued IBM. Other than a phone call with a paralegal at one firm and an invitation to have a paid consultation with another law firm (yeah right lol), I didn’t get any response and thus signed the agreement knowing that I had done everything I could to explore my options.

I can clarify. First @yqc+1nAqHh66 is 100% correct

"it's technically not severance that they're giving you, instead they're giving you a lump sum payout to sign your separation agreement to ensure that you don't have any rights to sue (in other words, if you don't sign, you dont get paid anything)."

It's a way to entice you to sign. By doing so you give up ALL RIGHTS to sue unless it's through secret arbitration (you will lose), or the EEOC sues on your behalf.

Secondly re WARN. IBM has been dodging this since 2014. It does this by laying off disparate groups that are spread over the entire country. Therefore they can claim they didn't hit the WARN requirements. It is distasteful, and potentially illegal. IBM has not been sued for this (yet). So no, WARN is no help here. So if you want to keep the right to sue, don't sign anything.

Should you choose to do so, the primary mechanism is age related. Are you in the Protected Class? Over forty. If so, there are some major wins on the books. BUT, you'd need to use the same lawyers, and be able provide some information to them. Probably a good idea before you sign anyway.

Thanks for the response. So If the 3 months package provided by IBM is not severance but separation agreement to ensure you dont sue them wouldnt the WARN act kick in where they need to provide 60 days notice of layoff for 50 or more employees terminated in last 90 days (include remote workers ) and in my state its 90 days notice for 50 or more employees (include counting remote workers) plus severance pay of 1 week for every year worked

Can you please share more or the particulars of today's RA? Like, what Geography? Which area(s)? Guess on the number of people hit?

I'm sorry you've been impacted (I was RA'ed in the May wave) - regarding your 2nd question, it's technically not severance that they're giving you, instead they're giving you a lump sum payout to sign your separation agreement to ensure that you don't have any rights to sue (in other words, if you don't sign, you dont get paid anything). I know hundreds of IBMers who were impacted by RA's this year and several whom I worked closely with who had consulted with Attorneys on the same, and none were successful modifying the agreement terms via an Attorney that I know of as IBM legal was firm on not changing any of their terms.