Thread regarding General Motors layoffs

Will General Motors and Ford go bankrupt? PT2

Will you be laid off? The bigger question is "Will General Motors and Ford go bankrupt?"

Market conditions outlined below indicate the threat environment for GM, Ford and Stellantis. These market conditions are going to get worse as the downturn accelerates. We are already seeing bank runs in some areas. Yesterday, a major bank (Silicon Valley Bank) collapsed. The stock market has been volitle for a year. Many lost 30% of their total net worth in 401ks and pensions. The housing market is about to crash and mass layoffs have begun outside silicone valley. Geopolitical issues such as the Russia/Ukraine war are threatening supply chains as natural gas and oil from the region are not available, causing inflation. Interest rates have been raised by the Fed, which is causing the economy to slow down as prices rise (stagflation).

With high interest rates, high auto loan repossession rates, high market saturation, mass layoffs, record credit card debt and a sinking stock market, the problem for the auto industry will not be a chip shortage, it will be a dramatic dip in sales revenue.

Key metrics: 34% of auto loans are sub prime borrowers with an 11% repo rate. Average interest rate is between 8.6% and 22.41%. Monthly payments average $718 to $1000. $1.5 Trillion in auto loans issued in 2022 alone, leaving huge liabilities for banks.

Car loans are such a disaster with repossessions that many banks are refusing to finance them. This has never happened before.
"U.S. lender Citizens stepping back from auto loans - CEO"
https://www.reuters.com/business/finance/us-lender-citizens-stepping-back-auto-loans-ceo-2023-01-30/
Mechanics Bank exits indirect auto lending
The bank had $3.6B in auto oustandings at year end 2021
https://www.autofinancenews.net/allposts/risk-management/mechanics-bank-exits-indirect-auto-lending/
"Wells Fargo will no longer accept loan applications from most independent car dealerships"
https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2020/06/02/wells-fargo-wont-make-auto-loans-most-independent-car-dealerships/3125301001/

General Motors profits are heavily reliant on the Chia market. What happens to GM's bottom line if geopolitical issues surrounding Taian threaten that?
"GM is one of the top-selling car companies in Chi*a and earned about $2 billion there last year as smaller rivals racked up losses, but expects weaker results this year." (link in the next paragraph)
Beyond the profits from the Chi*a market, American cars are produced with a very high number of parts from the region. What happens if that supply chain is cut off? No products. GM goes belly, and government bailouts can't produce parts.

Massive bad investments - In 2019 alone, GM spent over $1 billion on the Cruise project and hired an extra 2000 workers.
"The auto maker plans to spend $1 billion this year on its San Francisco-based Cruise autonomous-car division, including doubling its employee count to about 2,000 workers."
https://www.wsj.com/articles/gms-operating-profit-hurt-by-china-results-u-s-production-cuts-11556626628

GM spent a whopping $7 billion on battery development with no existing return on investment. This includes 4,000 more jobs and factory conversions.
"General Motors is investing nearly US$7-billion in electric vehicles (EVs) and battery plants, creating up to 4,000 jobs and keeping another 1,000 already employed. The investment will be used to convert an existing factory outside of Detroit to produce electric pickup trucks by 2023"
"https://www.theglobeandmail.com/business/international-business/article-general-motors-to-spend-nearly-7-billion-on-ev-battery-plants-in/

Generation Z isn't interested in cars! The market for GM and Ford autos is SHRINKING!!!
From the dawn of the automobile until the Baby Boomer generation, every generation drove more than the one that preceded it. That trend, though, seems to be reversing now, and, like the Millennial's before them, members of Generation Z, or Zoomers, are driving fewer miles than the people who preceded them.
https://www.carscoops.com/2023/02/zoomers-are-driving-even-less-than-millennials-did-before-them/

Cornavirs changed people's driving habits. Fewer people need to drive to work, others, people still afraid to leave the house, others are just too broke to shop and take trips.
https://www.brookings.edu/research/coronavirus-has-shown-us-a-world-without-traffic-can-we-sustain-it/

*Average new car price is $48,763
"The average price for a new vehicle was $48,763 in February – a decrease of 1.4% ($705) – compared to the previous month, according to a KBB news release."
https://clark.com/cars/average-new-car-price/

*Average used car is $20,000
*Auto loan interest rates average from 8.6% to 22.41%!!!
https://cars.usnews.com/cars-trucks/advice/average-auto-loan-interest-rates

*Average monthly new car payment is up 26% since 2019 to $718/month.
*1 in 6 owe $1,000/month for their new car
*Auto repossessions for subprime loans is 11%, 4$ for prime borrowers
https://www.autoblog.com/2022/07/11/car-repossessions-on-the-rise/

*As the auto loans were created in a frenzy of government stimulus checks, the prices of autos scaled up dramatically, leading to longer loans (72 months and higher!)
*34% of auto loans are sub prime borrowers
*Metrics for auto loans are far worse today than they were before the Great Recession
*"Stimulus Ballers" didn't pay rent, collected government stimulus checks and were given loans with no scrutiny
*Sub prime loans from "Stimulus Ballers" were packed and shopped from bank to bank
Will Subprime Auto Loans Trigger The Next Financial Crisis?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=okhzUoxaUO0

American Debt: Auto Loan Balances Hit $1.5 Trillion in 2022
https://www.investopedia.com/personal-finance/american-debt-auto-loan-debt/

"I am in the auto industry and this video is spot on! We now have customers financing 96 months and our best rates for 800 credit is currently around 8%."

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| 2781 views | | 14 replies (last March 14, 2023) | Reply
Post ID: @OP+1lAQsigx

14 replies (most recent on top)

"The posters here are so old and out of touch"
No I am 31 and American. They sending our jobs to Mexico .
Young and Old, Brown and White including black all goes to Mexico and India.

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Post ID: @3gvk+1lAQsigx

If I'm paying a car loan over 15 years, the car better keep running for the 15 years.

GM will have to up their quality game.

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Post ID: @1lbz+1lAQsigx

I think the prices are artificially high. Indeed there were supply chain problems due to covid that drove up the prices. However, it sounds like this no longer the case and we have an instance of the automotive cartel keeping the prices high. Probably not a global financial collapse but I suspect some heavy-duty market correction will be coming for the auto industry. We'll see.

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Post ID: @1pzm+1lAQsigx

It’s only the beginning! Far too many companies have allowed tens of thousands to work from home for three years. I’ve said this from the beginning and I’ll repeat myself: If everyone is working from home no one is doing much spending outside of loungewear and food. Far too many industries have been impacted by this remote working culture and it’s not sustainable for a free market economy. This is only the beginning. Last time GM offered a buyout not enough people bit and heads rolled. Very quickly thereafter the company was begging for a bailout, BUT also, very quickly thereafter many large banks were on their knees also begging for a bailout. With SVB in California ahead of the recession game we’re heading for a catastrophic economically and all of our tax payer funds are in Ukraine. Disastrous times ahead. GM has been riding the government coat tails for the past three years and living off of the funds received from chip shortages. How exactly does a company go from offering up to 75k in bonuses a few weeks ago to the need of people taking an early payout? The company is walking in a glass bottom that’s how!

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Post ID: @1yxj+1lAQsigx

looks like the government bailout of GM last time was a bad investment. Let it die for good this time

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Post ID: @1wsv+1lAQsigx

The posters here are so old and out of touch

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Post ID: @1izu+1lAQsigx

Between new vehicle costs and rising interest rates, our car payments will be $3,000 a month.

Who can afford that?

Maybe 15 year car loans will have to join 15 year mortgages

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Post ID: @1rby+1lAQsigx

Yeah, I agree with the OP - something's going to break. Cars are basically unobtanium originally due to supply chain problems. Where GM/Ford is raising prices Tesla is dropping theirs. I don't think they expected this move from Tesla. It doesn't help with the Fed hiking interst rates - which in turn will make already expensive new cars harder to finance. Further, Fed hikes is one contributing factor to the SVB collapse. I suspect there are going to be others. Feels like something bad is going to happen - soon.

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Post ID: @1aig+1lAQsigx

@gmz+1lAQsigx
I actually wrote this myself, spelling errors and all.
Don’t assume that because you aren’t smart enough to think strategically and write a quick research paper, others can’t. I can do this all day.
Have you ever used chatgpt? Produces very different results.
Then again, I don’t owe you an explanation because you are a pathetic troll.
If you have something to add to the conversation, bring it!

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Post ID: @ucy+1lAQsigx

No way will Government Motors ever go bankrupt. But Ford going bankrupt is a stong possibility an a entirely different thing. But Government motors going banrupt? Nope not a chance.

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Post ID: @dxg+1lAQsigx

Chat GPT? Nice.

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Post ID: @gmz+1lAQsigx

I wouldn’t be surprised if we see these automakers report bad earnings the next two quarters just so they can gain leverage when it comes to union contract talks.

The automakers know tough times are ahead. That’s part of the reason for the layoffs.

Overall, these companies look at the short term and never look beyond 1-2year time frame… mgmnt sucks and needs people with long term vision

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Post ID: @vbq+1lAQsigx

These are troubling times for sure. The economic, geopolitical, political, and pandemic factors aside, the biggest monkey wrench thrown on GM, Ford and Stellantis is the Tesla price drop. GM felt the direct threat to their EV market share from Tesla and had to react with a huge cost structure reduction. This was not a proactive step.

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Post ID: @jqk+1lAQsigx

Spot on, terrible times ahead. Cut back if you can.

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Post ID: @ihz+1lAQsigx

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