Thread regarding 3M layoffs

3M Stock

This PFAS development is very bullish for the stock longer term.

If they can do some things with this strategy, it will meaningfully lower the probability of 3M bankruptcy, which IMO now stands at 90% in the next 5 years.

They obviously need to have a plan to replace PFAS with some other safe material which delivers similar properties. They need to allocate and execute MASSIVE R&D and manufacturing resources to replace PFAS in as many applications as possible. They claim they have been doing this and are in position to support customers….so that is a positive if true.

They need to have a good way to serve customers in businesses they have to exit (there will be many) at or below the costs they have disclosed today. They claim 70-80% of these charges will be non-cash…so they claim their CF will remain very robust to support the dividend.

IF that is true, then they will likely weather this OK (with issues in some Qs) with purely CF and dividend driven investors.

When they can say they are exiting the chemistry, Courts and juries will have a tougher time saying they should go BK, as they can say prior executives made bad decisions, but society is better off letting them stay in business than bankrupting them.

Plus, if they can develop a few acceptable solutions to some 3M Branded ki---r apps, they could get a competitive edge on competitors who might not have the R&D capability to replace PFAS with still good performance.

PFAS free could be a marketing slogan in a few areas…but you have to be VERY careful not to denigrate the older product, NOT an easy job and their marketing is incompetent.

Overall, with what I know now, I am lowering my probability of BK to 70% over the next 5 years.

Market does not appreciate how important this is. If you truly believe they are not at threat from BK this is a good time to buy the stock IMO, which has a massive liability and risk of BK hit to the valuation.

This is their best shot to possible emerge from BK threat on the PFAS issue.

They can also say we are trying to remain a going concern to help those that were injured by the ear plugs, even though it wasn’t our fault.

Still 70% chance they go BK -- Largely because this requires a new truly strong CEO and CFO with some kind of trust from employees, customers. Roman and Patolawala are incompetent shareholder value killers who have absolutely devastated employee morale.

by
| 2071 views | | 8 replies (last December 22, 2022) | Reply
Post ID: @OP+1khqphGf

8 replies (most recent on top)

As much as I think that 3M is in trouble, the people that are claiming a bankruptcy risk are one of the more laughable things I’ve recently heard about.

by
| | Reply
Post ID: @2beg+1khqphGf

And what about the new safe PfAs replacements when they all of a sudden become bad too? More lawsuits? How can any company continue to weather never ending lawsuits? As well a bullsh-t ear plug lawsuits. They were approved by our gubment and now 3m is liable? So many people do not use ear protection, then when they have hearing loss and a lawyer says hey let's sue, they all see $$ and jump on the bandwagon. 3m makes millions of great products and a lot of life saving technology and products. 3m is a great company with poor recent leadership.

by
| | Reply
Post ID: @1jmf+1khqphGf

It will also be interesting to see what changes in our everyday world as we move away from PFAS-based products. For example, fuel lines in vehicles and aircraft currently use a blend of PTFE/rubber material. So will the industry move to a lesser known alternative, or worse, a less stable alternative which could result in catastrophic results? While it is good for the environment, a lot of what we have in our daily lives are enabled by PFAS-derived products. Will we be able to stop driving our gas vehicles when we can't get replacement fuel lines anymore? shudder

by
| | Reply
Post ID: @1xdy+1khqphGf

While I commend 3M for discontinuing the making and use of PFAS materials I think this play is to hide the additional costs of undoing A3M, severances, and Healthcare spin off. I believe this will be the new scapegoat for poor COGS, missed sales growth, etc. I would bet that non-PFAS related costs magically find their way into this topic with each quarterly earnings report going forward for the foreseeable future. This seems like another way to try and distract employees and Wallstreet from the the fact that leadership has zero strategy on how to turn the business around

by
| | Reply
Post ID: @1qfb+1khqphGf

Varys is spot on for the most part. No drop in replacements readily available for the vast majority of PFAS products and it’s WAY too late in the game to try to develop them from scratch…those activities needed to be initiated a decade ago.

by
| | Reply
Post ID: @1xmd+1khqphGf

Phasing out all PFAS use in 3M is a huge undertaking and will definitely hurt the business. It is good for society to minimize PFAS use, but 3M's bottom line is going to feel this sting.

I agree this announcement does nothing for potential legal liability, in fact it may even make it worse.

Actually removing PFAS will be a massive undertaking taking a lot of staff away from growing the business and spending their time re-building existing products. Without spilling secrets, there are PFAS materials used is probably every division and in some cases there are just no non-PFAS replacements available. 3M will have to discontinue many products with no replacement, driving customers to other companies for supply and not actually reducing PFAS in the environment.

Some 3M groups, ex: Dyneon, are honestly facing extinction with this announcement.

It is also worth noting that 3M buys tons, literal tons, of PFAS materials every year from other suppliers as raw materials.

All-in, I think this move is good for society but really increases the chance of 3M bankruptcy. I said around 12% (1 in 8) before, I'm increasing that estimate to 33% (1 in 3) today.

by
| | Reply
Post ID: @baf+1khqphGf

So are you saying this post is bullish? I said there is a 70% they go Bankrupt....what probability do you put on it?

by
| | Reply
Post ID: @lod+1khqphGf

Utter nonsense. Today’s announcement merely means that the massive PFAS liability risk balloon will only inflate for another 3 years. Hardly a “bold” decision at this point, given the harsh legal/customer realities already facing the company today (a full 2 decades following the C8 phase out decision). Meanwhile, 1000s of litigants are already at 3M’s doorstep and are not leaving. That group will continue to swell regardless of company’s decision to exit manufacturing, for at least the reason that legacy contamination will be discovered for decades to come (since PFAS doesn’t degrade) and CERCLA designation has yet to come to fruition.

In terms of investment opportunities, Twitter would be a better choice.

by
| | Reply
Post ID: @ezw+1khqphGf

Post a reply

: