Will SAS ever do a package for those under 60? Seems crazy that one could work here 35 years or more and get $100 per year to leave when someone who worked here for 10 years can get 6 figures to walk away! Doesn’t make much sense to me!
Why not do a combination of age and years of service? Like 75-85 total years?
33 replies (most recent on top)
@tf Do what we did way back when, with Version 7. Don’t cancel it, but make it free or cheap, and move most employees off of it.
Ship MVA Version 10 ASAP. Most customers will move there; the few that remain on Viya will eventually face an End-Of-Life process.
Do not EOL in front of a sale or IPO. That would just bring bad publicity. The EOL can be an SEP (Somebody Else’s Problem).
keep the name, but change whatever needs to be changed (no idea if mgmt and staff are able to do that). no need to cancel anything or lose face.
Never understood these comments. It’s not a family, it’s work. Not enjoying it, or want something more? Get another job. You aren’t stuck anywhere. Will it take some time? Maybe, but so what. Sharpen up skills if you need to. Polish up that resume, and start interviewing. Not sure why anyone thinks they have to stay. It’s just a job, and despite what you might believe, there are others out there.
The current management is not competent or organized enough to do anything but what they've been doing for years. There will be no backing down from this viya debacle. Full steam ahead - right into the iceberg.
… yet the company SAS appears to be fully committed to Viya.
How can they cancel it and save face? How many new products are being built on top of Viya already? It is a fact that some large customers have dependencies on Viya.
It’s a real labyrinth trying t navigate all this —- especially at this juncture.
Is the current management competent and organized enough to actually cancel Viya, or effectively transition to something else without doing further and even irreparable damage to a potential IPO or sale?
) Cancel it, and move the resources onto other projects.
Should have been canceled years ago. When it was rolled out years ago at Las Vegas SGF, the response was underwhelming. Viya never picked up momentum from there.
2) Throw more money at it, and hope it succeeds.
Money has been thrown at Viya for over 10 years. It has not gained traction and enough is enough.
3) IPO, and present it as a potential growth area.
Even Stevie Wonder can see that Viya iis NOT a growth area. Presenting Viya as a growth area would only serve as an impediment to an IPO.
@sy+1k32ffr27 Good question. Pretty sure we know what most people on here will say.
I honestly can’t answer that question without a bunch of other data that none of actually have.
Viya may not be selling well, but it’s not selling zero. What would you do with it, if the decision were yours? What do you think management will do?
1) Cancel it, and move the resources onto other projects.
2) Throw more money at it, and hope it succeeds.
3) IPO, and present it as a potential growth area.
"DEI and Viya have at least two things in common. First, neither moved the company in a positive direction. Second, their proponents are solidly stuck deniers about how both hold the company back. Their flawed thinking is "give it more time and you will see great fireworks". Pffft...."
I'm not a big DEI or even Viya proponent. But even so everything about the way you said what you said screams stupidity. As you call tell I speak stupidity fluently so I know it when I hear/see it. Pffft....
"anyone notice that the DEI vs Merit postings that had 5,000+ views just disappeared?"
DEI and Viya have at least two things in common. First, neither moved the company in a positive direction. Second, their proponents are solidly stuck deniers about how both hold the company back. Their flawed thinking is "give it more time and you will see great fireworks". Pffft....
Yep somebody probably got a wedgie from the discussion because the Art Department was mentioned.
@np “...bringing in inflation is meaningless and meant to distract.”
It’s not. SAS’s expenses rise with inflation, while revenues have not. Flat $3B revenues may sound good, but those rising expenses require continued layoffs.
“If I were to get laid off tomorrow then I can… retire.”
Fair point. If you’re in a position to retire, then your future and SAS’s future can align, and my argument does not apply.
In general, it does apply, to SAS employees not near retirement.
This whole thing is like throwing a ball of yarn in front of a bunch of kittens and watching them attack it and then insisting they are using rational arguments while cherry picking, ignoring things and just not acknowledging that they don't have most of the relevant information (unless they are executives at SAS).
Most of what you say is refutable but at the end of the day I like watching kittens do stupid sh-t. It's funny.
Insisting on bringing in inflation is meaningless and meant to distract. It affects everything and everyone. It is not a SAS specific thing. 3 billion. profitable.
"Those who say those two beliefs are not mutually exclusive have no rational argument."
You are really stuck on that aren't you?
Well lets see. I have been at SAS 32 years. Make good money. Get to work on cutting edge technologies because I've kept myself relevant, work with smart and curious people.
In what way does SAS future and my future not align? Ultimately I'm the only judge of that particular equation for myself. Not you no matter what kind of nebulous blanket statements you like to make on anonymous site without knowing thing one about the people you are actually talking to.
If I were to get laid off tomorrow then I can either retire or easily go elsewhere.
The likelihood of me getting laid of tomorrow is slim. Will there be layoffs? Quite likely. Maybe even enough to rise up to something like the industry "norm".
But either way my future and the future of SAS are perfectly in harmony until they actually aren't. Not because you say they aren't.
@js Why you assume that people assumed that? Why you assume that people who think differently than you root from unreasonable reasons? 😂
@k7 My rational argument is that a) SAS revenues are declining v. inflation, b) Viya has not arrested that decline, therefore c) the decline and consequent layoffs will continue.
This argument supports @gn’s dichotomy of SAS’s future v. your future.
Those who say those two beliefs are not mutually exclusive have no rational argument.
They are entitled to believe they have a bright future at a shrinking company. But they can't explain how.
Haven’t such removals occurred here before, only to have the thread eventually restored with redactions?
@OP anyone notice that the DEI vs Merit postings that had 5,000+ views just disappeared?
“ Of course, everyone is entitled to their own opinion. But an opinion is not the same as a rational argument.”
Finally you understand thelayoff.com
Every single person on here “thinks” they are the one making the rational argument.
You can think it is you all day long but doesn’t make it so.
@js SAS is a shrinking company. Revenues vs. inflation are down ~20%. As a result, headcount is also down ~20%.
True, some of us were beaten down by incompetent management. Because of this experience, many of us left.
But independent of our experience, we also saw the company shrinking, with no path to future growth.
You say you have a future here. But you make no argument why.
Will Viya save you? It’s had >10 years, but it has not increased revenues.
Of course, everyone is entitled to their own opinion. But an opinion is not the same as a rational argument.
@j4+1k32ffr27 You are right but don’t bother.
This place is full of people who will gripe that you don’t understand or are undermining whatever trauma they think SAS has put on them.
But at the same time they undermine the idea that anyone could possibly be happy, fulfilled, cutting edge, etc at SAS. If it didn’t work that way for them then it can’t happen any other way. If anyone is successful then they are surely getting favoritism by incompetent management versus actually being good at what they do. SAS has beaten these other people into the ground and there is no fault on themselves. Yet they still stay and collect a paycheck…
You are conveniently ignoring this part:
"Your mental and physical health won't be optimal at a dead-end job."
It was a dead-end job for me.
“If you believe in SAS' future - stay.
If you believe in your future - leave..
Time has sadly proven those two beliefs to be mutually exclusive.”
Time has proven no such thing. They are most certainly not mutually exclusive.
Do the two align for everyone? Of course not. But claiming they don’t align for anyone is ignorant at its finest.
@f4 your comment made me want to cry. the part about the hours outside work being ruined by work stress rang so true. I know you're right.
I can't afford to leave, not yet. most people I know who are miserable can't afford to leave.
but the dominoes are starting to fall. people are starting to quietly leave. I can't blame them one bit.
If you believe in SAS' future - stay.
If you believe in your future - leave..
Time has sadly proven those two beliefs to be mutually exclusive.
Your mental and physical health won't be optimal at a dead end job.
@an "Wish they would. I'd be gone so fast I'd leave smoke trails down sas campus drive. Things have changed too much these past few years and not for the better."
I left in 2018, so the only thing that I had to compare was that I knew of people who were put on PIP (Performance Improvement Plan, I think?) that were basically paid to 'separate' at the end of PIP. Of course the buyout $$ was not public, but there were rumors. And I heard enough rumors to know that there was a really good chance that those folks were getting WAY more money on their way out the door than I would. Funny and sad at the same time -- made me almost want to tank my career to get a good buyout ;-)
But I jumped ahead. Before these intensely purposeful regular VRBP buyouts, I left with 28 years (i.e. $2800) in early 2018 just after turning 49. @an I can tell you this -- if your quote truly is the thought in your head right now, and you are financially able to either retire or get another job that will make you happy, please make sure that you put a value on your own physical and mental health and use that as a factor to instead decide "i'm leaving with the (whatever measly amount) in my pocket with a smile on my face because I survived". I had physical problems from being crumpled up at a desk that no amount of PT and exercise could straighten out, compounded by the mental stress I'm sure, although I didn't really recognize that at the time, and it ruined the hours outside of work for me for many years that I didn't really realize until after I retired and I was finally able to start unwinding all that damage. If anything like this applies to you, please don't underestimate that. I wish you well (sincerely).
I think the comment that “they haven’t because they haven’t had to” is right on target. SAS used to (in the 80s and 90s) be a company that stood out in how much it (at least seemingly) cared for its employees. That distinction has eroded tremendously. I took the 2021 VRBP and have pretty much never regretted it—aside from missing some people and some of my former work. I’m very grateful that I qualified by age in 2021; I was only about two weeks too young in 2018.
Intel had the rule of 75 (age + years of service). I have several friends who took advantage of that when they reached that milestone- especially given their current situation.
Yes please. I’d also take a layoff with severance.
I think they have found that they do not need to. The just hire young people and wait for the rest to wander/die off.
@an "I'd be gone so fast I'd leave smoke trails down sas campus drive"
I think I left skid marks on my way out. First, to slow my a-s down so as not to plow through the front gate. Then again, when the bar lifted signaling GO! like the Christmas tree at a drag race.
Wish they would. I'd be gone so fast I'd leave smoke trails down sas campus drive. Things have changed too much these past few years and not for the better.
I left between the buyouts. Had 25+ years. Got less than $2000 to leave and I took it.
Agreed, in terms of rewarding loyalty, it does not make any sense. SAS is doing the best they can, in a bad situation.
Sabena SAS airlines! They were the best