Everything new will be available maybe later this year unless the company is sold or management changes its mind. The story about the engineer who had a great idea 2 years ago and could not get any support until he confronted management and then Goodnight did a demo last year and this year it will be available in the fall. That is a 3 year cycle for a new product that is still not ready to sell. Not a success story. Customers who paid for Viya will not pay for another science project made by engineers for engineers. Investors will not be impressed. A youtube video for the SAS MS 5 year anniversary? MS can't pay to send someone to Orlando? 2 years into AI and SAS has a Copilot like MS github? Then the VP of Solutions came out and read from the teleprompter so very very very slowly that it sounded like he might fall asleep. It was painful like watching Joe Biden try to sell software. Deer in the headlights. His face said it all. Management is lost.
13 replies (most recent on top)
Once SAS achieved dominance in Analytics, it was logical to grow the company by moving into vertical business solutions.
Most of those solutions had Product Managers. I’m not saying Product Management can’t work, but on most of those solutions, it didn’t.
In the meantime, while exploring those markets, we neglected our base in Analytics. Competitors seized their opportunity.
Viya’s lead architect had a deep understanding of Analytics. In theory, Viya could have helped restore our base. But that didn’t work out, either.
A good leader can have Engineering skills or Product Management skills. Either way, you need leaders with skills to ensure customer satisfaction, and the time to achieve it.
SAS Institute has a long history of promoting people who lack these skills, and pushing for quick results.
Big shift occurred many, many years ago when SAS shifted away from core competence in analytics and decided to create business solutions. Yes, a couple like Fraud and Risk did well but there was a lot of lost focus around the Business Solutions division.
"BG’s flaws bring him more than his share of the blame. It couldn’t happen to a nicer guy 😉."
The BG should never have been allowed to be customer facing. Perhaps that is part of the reason Jim D departed? Maybe JD saw sooner what the rest of us took longer to recognize.
Hind sight has proven that Viya was the beginning of the end of the glory years.
"Engineers are trained to solve customer problems. They are taught to elicit customer pain points, through prototypes, interviews, and listening to customer feedback. These techniques are part of the engineering process."
100% wrong. That mistake is the whole problem. That is not what engineers do. That is what product managers do. When engineers or statisticians think they are product managers you get science projects that don't launch on schedule because sales cannot find a customer. Statisticians for statisticians. Engineers for engineers. Same difference.
Engineers like to work for engineers, but when you hire an engineer to lead product management, you get a VP of Solutions who cannot launch a product that will sell because he doesn't know how.
Keep arguing about whether engineers are smarter than statisticians and the crazy German. The sales team is leaving. Good luck at the science fair.
https://www.coursera.org/articles/what-does-a-product-manager-do
What does a product manager do?
A product manager is a professional who defines a product's strategy, roadmap, features, and success. They help set goals and motivate the product team of engineers, designers, marketers, and researchers, with the primary concern of ensuring that a product launches and continues to do well in the market.
Product managers stay on top of business and consumer trends and behaviors that directly or indirectly affect the product or company. Day-to-day responsibilities may include:
Analyzing, understanding, and representing user needs
Monitoring the market landscape to conduct market research and develop a competitive analysis
Defining the vision and strategy for a product, such as a multi-year roadmap of its development, packaging, launch, and expansion
Coordinating and communicating about the product's vision with management, product teams, and other stakeholders
Gathering and conducting research and feedback (QA) on the product
Guiding teams through the different stages of the product life cycle
“narcissist traits. Many would overlook that if he had built stuff customers wanted…”
Yes. All leaders are flawed. But we forgive their flaws if they achieve success.
Without success, the BG’s flaws bring him more than his share of the blame. It couldn’t happen to a nicer guy 😉.
“Arguably, nobody at the company was ever an engineer.”
Fair point. But people can do good software engineering without testing or certification.
If you ever read any of the original SAS code, from the 1970s, it was quite well engineered — state of the art, for its day. That’s why it lasted so long. And SAS, back in that day, excelled at listening to its customers.
As the company evolved, we lost some of the best features of our culture.
Its designer had no training in software engineering, or any other kind of engineering. He has a Master’s in Statistics and a Ph.D. in Forestry. A smart guy, but understandably ignorant in a field he never studied.
Engineers are trained to solve customer problems. They are taught to elicit customer pain points, through prototypes, interviews, and listening to customer feedback. These techniques are part of the engineering process.
Arguably, nobody at the company was ever an engineer either:
The foundational qualifications of a licensed professional engineer typically include a four-year bachelor's degree in an engineering discipline, or in some jurisdictions, a master's degree in an engineering discipline plus four to six years of peer-reviewed professional practice (culminating in a project report or thesis) and passage of engineering board examinations. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engineer]
The debate regarding engineering versus { developer, programmer, coder, etc.} has raged for years and many true engineers disagree with the use of the term in fields that do not require extensive training, education, testing, and certification. True, there are those with education and advanced education in computer science but even those academic teachings do not often focus on software engineering, resulting in individuals that excel at desinging capable, performant, robust, and correct systems.
Of course, none of this matters much to an industry that was focused on coding camps and is now focused on vibe coding and cost reduction. Who needs a degree, certification, or government granted official title when AI can do it all?
@eq+1jv1zhjr8
While I agree with 99% of what you say and probably 100% of your intent, I would have phrased it differently. You state: "Viya was designed by a statistician, for statisticians." I would have stated: "Viya was designed by a statistician, to massage his own massive fragile ego." That tall German guy did not give a rat's patoot about anyone but himself.
“Customers who paid for Viya will not pay for another science project made by engineers for engineers.”
Viya was designed by a statistician, for statisticians.
Its designer had no training in software engineering, or any other kind of engineering. He has a Master’s in Statistics and a Ph.D. in Forestry. A smart guy, but understandably ignorant in a field he never studied.
Engineers are trained to solve customer problems. They are taught to elicit customer pain points, through prototypes, interviews, and listening to customer feedback. These techniques are part of the engineering process.
Viya’s designer never used these techniques. He was never taught they were important — because he was not an engineer. An engineer listens to customers.
@bs+1jv1zhjr8 you may disagree with some of the opinions, but the point is to listen not to refute each sentence. You are making absolute claims on things you may not know, in disgraceful manners. If you are a manager or above in SAS...that's a huge embarrassment to everyone who works hard here to make good changes happen. You are the problem. Learn the word humble.
“ but the point is to listen not to refute each sentence.”
Is that the point? You have your point. I’ll have my point.
Although you felt compelled to dismiss my thoughts and instead of just listening had to reply. Practice what you preach.
I would respond to your other “points” but I’m told by anonymous person that isn’t the point.
@ac+1jv1zhjr8 you may disagree with some of the opinions, but the point is to listen not to refute each sentence. You are making absolute claims on things you may not know, in disgraceful manners. If you are a manager or above in SAS...that's a huge embarrassment to everyone who works hard here to make good changes happen. You are the problem. Learn the word humble.
“ The story about the engineer who had a great idea 2 years ago and could not get any support until he confronted management ”
Wow you really stretched that from what was said. He had an idea and got support when he made the pitch.
You made up the “could not get any support” part as so many of you like to do on here.
I know the person in question and know you are wrong.
“ Customers who paid for Viya will not pay for another science project made by engineers for engineer”
That is where most successful ideas at technology companies come from. Research it.
“ That is a 3 year cycle for a new product that is still not ready to sell.”
You are obviously not an engineer and don’t know what it takes to deliver software from idea to implementation. I bet you ”create prototypes” in PowerPoint really well.
"another science project made by engineers for engineers"
THAT is the best single sentence description of Viya.
Viya is not used much even when SAS bundles Viya for free with a sale of other products.
A logical conclusion is that SAS needs better bait than Viya to catch a buyer or conduct an PO.