Thread regarding Cisco Systems Inc. layoffs

How does a PIP work?

I know its performance improvment but unsure how its used to LR somebody as an alternative way to let people go. Especially if youre doing your job well all along.

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| 1661 views | | 14 replies (last January 27, 2025) | Reply
Post ID: @OP+1jjdy73zk

14 replies (most recent on top)

Heads they win, tails you lose.

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Post ID: @mq+1jjdy73zk
Serious, add another step if you are in a protected class so it's not the career ender it should be in a lot of cases.

Whole software development organizations should be fired. Having seen bugs cut and pasted dozens of times in one branch and forked on to what were hundreds of release branches you're rewarding people for fixing each instance of the bug at say one every two days which if you have say 20 copies on 200 branches that's 8,000 days or at 2,000 hours a year it could be 32 engineering years to do what should have taken two days, FOR WHICH EVERYONE INVOLVED WAS REWARDED. Most companies dream of having total revenues the size of what Cisco spent on bug fixing.

Look at how many were promoted to Principal Software Engineer who can't figure out what needs to be done, how to do what needs to be done, do what needs to be done, or test what needs to be done, which makes them unqualified to pass an Introduction to Software Engineering course. That they're paid engineers is a travesty. They didn't all come in to Cisco this way which means management had a major role in breaking those that could have been useful and as long as product goes out the door however late management won't be held accountable for this damage.

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Post ID: @jv+1jjdy73zk

It's a pain to kick these off and go through from a manager standpoint. Although the bulk that end up on these should have been fired anyways, usually nothing comes of them if you follow the program and make some effort. Serious, add another step if you are in a protected class so it's not the career ender it should be in a lot of cases.

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Post ID: @fq+1jjdy73zk
PIP is a standard policy now...

And has been for many decades for companies that don't just fire you on the spot. How many remember when Chambers did full on rank-and-yank, wage freezes, dry promotions, and more?

Seeing this being we-ponized against quite a few senior people who have been succesful for many years.

In some organizations where you have competent high level people and the larger corporation does a mandate of PIPing everyone on each team ultimately gets the short straw over a succession of quarters and they all pass the PIP.

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Post ID: @ec+1jjdy73zk

If they pip you give 'em he-l. Choose yourself over them and look for a job and try to get severance. Thats the American way

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Post ID: @eb+1jjdy73zk

PIPs are a PITA for everyone involved...very dependent on country/state laws. It's not an easy button to remove a specific employee.

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Post ID: @ea+1jjdy73zk

Seeing this being we-ponized against quite a few senior people who have been succesful for many years.

Then, all of a sudden they su-k?

how classy /s

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Post ID: @d3+1jjdy73zk

With low workforce resources and more workloads, everyone will be on a pip soon.

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Post ID: @cj+1jjdy73zk

So this is how it goes, instead of letting people go with LR and having to pay. What a shame. People play politics all the time instead of learning and innovating . This is why there is not much of a growth. In my team a group was deployed just to play politics, act like they are working and instead of leading ,take orders from someone else while treating good people like s——t.

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Post ID: @c8+1jjdy73zk

PIP is a standard policy now for employers to legally push out hard working employees, often to reduce work force without paying severance money.

HR will first make you offer to take one month pay and leave on your own.

If you say, you will stick around and work on improving they put you on PIP. Manager will have a weekly coaching and document primarily listing your weaknesses and lack of meeting performance. Don’t buy managers BS, respond to every communication with your well thought out, meeting and exceeding work standards, and copy HR (Manager will BCC anyway, you will learn).

This is your last chance before officially putting on PIP. Don’t let it come to this stage, as rarely any one come out. Better to move and look for another job than repair a PIP.

Hope is you end at LR and get the severance. This the best case scenario to get out of a Je-ky Manager.

Best wishes. Keep your chip up and smile.

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Post ID: @br+1jjdy73zk

Yeah, the employer could fire you "with cause" if you refuse to sign the pip, so no severance for you. Sign it and start job hunting. A PIP means they want you gone. If you work hard, they will likely fire you anyways, but get more unpaid labor out of you. If you slack off, they terminate you, possibly earlier than the PIP deadline.

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Post ID: @bm+1jjdy73zk

Don't follow advice in first comment to "get a lawyer"...PIPs are perfectly legal and you will get nowhere. Cisco will not pay you $$$ to avoid a lawsuit.

If you don't sign the PIP paperwork you should expect instant termination with no $

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Post ID: @bf+1jjdy73zk

it turns a layoff into a with-cause termination

it isn't unheard of to course-correct out of a PIP but its rare and it depends on the company and managers involved

realistically, you are gone and there is no point in bothering to perform any kind of work

the good news is that once the PIP paperwork is in place, it is highly unlikely that your manager will try to insta-fire you for non-performance; they'll just let the PIP run its course

so consider the PIP timeline as your severance (i.e. if the PIP is three months, you are getting three months comp as severance)

lots of companies seems to be realizing that employees have figured this out and are moving to immediate termination for performance, see teamblind.com

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Post ID: @ay+1jjdy73zk

It's abused as a way to fire someone legally without having to pay any severance at all. The performance requirements are made to be unreasonably high and deliberately vague so that they are not achievable. Management plus the legal team prepares these so that it will generally hold up in court. Usually the manager has to be corrupt to play along with this sham, or they've been threatened to be PIP'ed themselves if they don't cooperate willingly. The employee then has 1-3 months depending on the terms of the PIP to be kicked to the curb.

It also encourages the employee to resign and find another job, which also means no severance has to be paid out. They also try to make you sign some paperwork noting that you agree with the PIP, or that you at least acknowledge you've been put on one. Don't sign anything. Document everything, save your past performance reviews, and spend a couple hundred bucks on an employment lawyer for guidance. Finally, if you're on a PIP, they want you gone, so keep that in mind. Other managers will be hesitant to take you on.

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Post ID: @as+1jjdy73zk

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