At one time, there was a goal to make V9 and Viya compatible, i.e. "One SAS".
Is compatibility being actively pursued? or have they given up?
19 replies (most recent on top)
"A good salesperson isn't going to push customers (especially existing customers) to an inferior product. You shouldn't bash a product, but a good sales exec looks out for the best interest of the customer too."
Well said. As an ex-SAS account exec, that is precisely why I chose to leave. My professional reputation was at stake. Trying to sell Viya was eroding that reputation. I'm afraid a lot of current long-term employees will find their reputation is already tarnished, when the inevitable happens and they have to find other work.
When the Viya announcement was released in 2016 I was told by those more familiar with it that “it’s basically LASR v2/what LASR should have been”.
I remember LASR being confusing, buggy, and not a product customers were lining up to buy, and remember thinking at the time it was strange to bet the company’s future on “LASR v2”.
I assumed it would make sense in time and that the product strategy would become clearer, but it never has.
A good salesperson isn't going to push customers (especially existing customers) to an inferior product. You shouldn't bash a product, but a good sales exec looks out for the best interest of the customer too.
Viya 3.5 was a train wreck, 4 was a little better, but the cost for existing customers to migrate from a V9 deployment to Viya (often with lost functionality) was really hard for them to even entertain (not to mention the expense). When a customer was looking at that migration, we opened ourselves up to them looking at the competition/open source.
SAS likely still has some stronghold areas (dr-g research/fraud, etc.) but they are getting whooped in many other areas.
I don't know what the future holds for SAS, but I hope it works out for the people still there. Sadly, I think some hard decisions and pretty significant cuts in staff need to be made. I still talk to friends over there and even with the slow trickle of layoffs, many still think a 40+% RIF would be a "good start". The company seems bogged down in bureaucracy - nothing gets done quickly over there- it was maddening when trying to get anything done internally.
“Eight and a half years later I retired.”
Oops! Make that “five and a half years.”
I said something (mildly, peripherally) negative about Viya and kept my job. Who remembers when they floated the Viya logo internally? It was a capital V with a little horizontal line extending to the left from the right arm of the V and so, as I responded to the SWW article, it looked like a “V7” pushed together. For reference, SAS Version 7 was SAS’ least successful release to date (until Viya said “Hold my beer”), one SAS preferred to pretend never happened.
My reply was met with two official replies: a) We don’t think others will see it that way and b) It’s too late to change it anyway. Then a number of other respondents weighed in, agreeing that the logo had a strong “V7” vibe.
A couple of weeks later, there was a new Viya logo. For that one, they flipped the Sound Cloud logo left to right, opened up the top, and stuck in a V.
Eight and a half years later I retired.
Good times.
"In my experience, thos good managers were a minority. Most SAS R&D managers did not tolerate constructive criticism. The person who said that saying anything negative would put your job in jeopardy gave sound advice."
Wow, that makes me rethink this! All this time I thought what a ridiculous attitude (even though I knew it was coming from above him), but now you've made me think that he was actually trying to protect us.
I lost several jobs in SAS R&D for suggesting what seemed to me better ideas. Management never fired me; they usually just moved me from my job to a less desirable position. That gave me reason to leave, which I usually did.
In the old days, this didn’t ruin your career, because the company was always growing. So there were always new positions opening, and the chance of finding a manager who was not insecure and would tolerate suggestions.
In my experience, thos good managers were a minority. Most SAS R&D managers did not tolerate constructive criticism. The person who said that saying anything negative would put your job in jeopardy gave sound advice.
“ Whether an anonymous person on this site believes me or not, I care not.”
On that we can agree. Nothing posted anonymously is worth much.
Totally not BS and I was in R&D. Whether an anonymous person on this site believes me or not, I care not.
“Because only your experience is valid.”
Of course not. But BS is still BS.
You are either making sh-t up or being overly dramatic in your paraphrasing.
Zero chance you were told that your job was in jeopardy if you said anything negative about Viya. Wait unless…. Are/were you one of the salespeople who wouldn’t get on board with selling Viya? Meaning actively not selling it despite the directives? If so maybe I can see it in the context of talking to customers.
But what kind of salesperson would talk negatively about products to begin with?
Such BS. Nobody ever told you that.
Because only your experience is valid.
You keep being you.
"we set compatibility as a requirement from the start and we achieved it."
How? A small piece of the whole?
In optimization the main interface was within the OPTMODEL procedure, which contained a complete optimization modeling language (which was the standard type of UI in that market). OPTMODEL was a part of both SAS/OR and SAS Optimiztion. Essentially all you needed to move from the former to the latter was the addition of a CAS libref statement.
For the more narrowly focused procedures, there were small syntactical differences but the transition from V9 to Viya was pretty direct. And we offered migration guidelines in the documentation.
“ later we were even cautioned that if we said anything negative regarding Viya, our jobs were in jeopardy”
Such BS. Nobody ever told you that.
"there are many talented people remaining at SAS."
Unfortunately, not enough left to make full compatibility a reality.
I recall the quote not involving "two trains", but more along the lines of "The train is leaving the station. You either get on the train or be left at the station."
Employees were baffled that we would abandon our V9 customers and what built SAS.
But we dutifully shuffled onto the train (later we were even cautioned that if we said anything negative regarding Viya, our jobs were in jeopardy).
Of course, as it turned out, almost no customers boarded the train.
"we set compatibility as a requirement from the start and we achieved it."
How? A small piece of the whole?
It's a hard problem, but there are many talented people remaining at SAS. It seems like they could create a pathway to migrate 80% of V9 jobs to Viya, and treat the remaining 20% as a consulting opportunity.
Is there any active plan to achieve compatibility? or at least a simple migration path?
If management have given up on this goal, I guess their only goal is to sell the company.
I've not heard the phrase "one SAS" uttered in a long, long time. Thanks for the nostalgic moment.
Honestly that was just one of the strategies offered up by C-level; remember “two trains?” In my area, optimization, we set compatibility as a requirement from the start and we achieved it.