So Allstate is saying you can "voluntarily submit" your vaccinination status now.
(Until the courts say its mandatory....lets get a head start!)
Lets forget whether I am vaxxed or not. I work at home, and are not customer facing or on Allstate's health plan, and, oh this crazy thing called HIPPA to remind HR.
WHY THE @#)($@#)($ is the company entitled to this information?
Dr-g testing lowered on the job accidents thus improving safety for all employees and lowering costs from lawsuits and hospitalizations.
Smoking pollutes the air harming others. Coughing deadly Covid virus in the air harms others and affects productivity and thus the company's bottom line.
Covid stays often exceed $250,000 and non-vaccinated are 12 times more likely to incur this unnecessarily.
We are not collectivist society in these actions. These actions are purely capitalist. Lower risks and health care costs means lower operating costs and higher profit.
You accept the company's health insurance but I believe you have no concept how much health insurance costs a company. You seem socialist in that you expect the company's share holders and fellow employees to absorb the unnecessary additional cost the unvaccinated bring to the table.
It seems you resist anything that is best for others if that means you have to give a little of yourself. Some call that freedom Others call it selfishness
Hey. Start your own tech company in Montana . Hire only the unvaccinated. Require no masks be worn. Let people smoke. Let them do dr-gs and drink just before they get into the office.
But your days at a Fortune 500 company seem limited. Your inability to find balance between what is best for you, your co-workers, and your company will make you a rather limited prospect based on my experience.
@2fvh+1eFrfg1Z you say that like getting fired by allstate is a bad thing. If they are willing to fire me over this bu-----t, more power to them, I dare them.
@2pxp+1eFrfg1Z none of that changes that it isn't their job.
I'm not an advocate for dr-g testing either. What I put into my body during my spare time isn't their business either.
Smoking is more of a choice of property rights... Don't want you smoking in their buildings, that's their choice, but they can't tell me what to do on my time.
We're are not a collectivist society, if you want that, China and Cuba would love to have you.
We have the choice to do what we want with our health. Even if I'm vaccinated, I would not tell my employer, period. It's none of their damn business. If that costs me my job, fine, plenty of others out there. Being in tech, I have tons of opportunities available to me and am not worried, which is why I'm willing to fight for freedom.
That is the cost of freedom. Standing up for what I feel is right, not submitting to the loss of my freedoms for the greater good.
"Nonvoluntary giving up my freedoms is not the price of freedom, you guys are really twisted."
You don't have a constitutionally guaranteed freedom to work at Allstate. Or maybe I missed it. Or could you show me wherein the Bill of Rights, Constitution, or federal or state law that exists?
But state law does permit employers to fire employees at will. Thank you GOP legislatures for that and ki----g unions.
"it's not my employers job to police my health. If you want that, you won't like where it goes from there"
Yet, you can be dr-g tested, can't you? You cannot smoke in the building. You cannot drink in the building. Why. Because of the harm it does to others.
Simply put they are not policing your health. They are protecting their share holders from your unnecessary additional cost as an employee. Frankly, they don't care about your health. They care about their health insurance and paid time off costs.
Your decision places an unnecessary burden on their bottom line. Not only that, it increases the costs of employment which means your fellow employees will pay more for health insurance or the comapny will reduce benefits.
Additionally, they are not policing your health as much as the health of your co-workers. They dont want you getting others sick and affecting the companies output.
Whats the problem? You made a choice. Live with the consequences.
Freedom has a price? Nonvoluntary giving up my freedoms is not the price of freedom, you guys are really twisted...
@2rso+1eFrfg1Z it's not my employers job to police my health. If you want that, you won't like where it goes from there
"Simple, it's none of their damn business, especially if I'm a remote employee."
Did you not read about the unnecessary financial and community risk you place on your employer and co-workers by not being vaccinated?
So, you see, you have the freedom of choice to not be vaccinated. Your employer subsequently has the freedom to not accept the additional financial and societal risk your decision places on them.
See. You both have freedom. Freedom comes with a price.
It seems that you want your freedom without a price.
It seems you want your decisions to have no consequence.
What am I missing?
Since there are quite a few of you anti-Vaxxers, why not start you own company? You could call it "Freedom Inc". That way no one would need to be vaccinated or wear a mask. You could do what you wish. Though I would love to see the insurance premiums at that company as well as the time off for illness.
"In other words, why should an employer accept these additional risks to its employees, its communities and hospitals, and its financial bottom line? What rationale would require an employer to be forced to take on these unnecessary risks?"
Simple, it's none of their damn business, especially if I'm a remote employee.
Let me more succinccly summarize what the previous poster tried to say
Can anyone on this board credibly show with any sort of verifiable data that the unvaccinated are NOT
In other words, why should an employer accept these additional risks to its employees, its communities and hospitals, and its financial bottom line? What rationale would require an employer to be forced to take on these unnecessary risks? This is a job board after all.
Can anyone provide any credible data that vaccinations do not slow the spread of Covid and reduce hospital ICU stays and deaths by 92%?
Can anyone provide any data that Covid vaccinations have no worse side effects than other vaccines, or that the vaccines have not saved hundreds of thousands of lives?
Can anyone provide any credible data that 825,000 Americans have died of Covid and that it was the second largest ki---r of Americans in 2021.
Can anyone provide data that the unvaccinated did not cost a hundred billion in unnecessary hospital stays which was then subsidized by employers and taxpayers?
Can anyone provide data that properly worn surgical and KN95 masks significantly do not limit the spread of viruses such as Covid?
Do any of you folks have any scientific or peer reviewed evidence for your positions?
"Spoken like a selfish me too, UnAmerican."
So science is now Un-american? So not bringing ICU beds to over capacity so that fellow Americans can get critical medical help is un-American? So seeking to stop the socialization of the hundreds of billions of unnecessary hospital stays is un-American? So seeking to stop or slow a pandemic ki----g 825,000 Americans is un-American
Wow. Qanon, Breitbart, OAN, and Hannity has really twisted your definition of what being an American means. It means doing the right thing for your country, not the right thing for your political leaders that seek to manipulate you for votes.
So I provided data from the CDC, Mayo clinic, the most respected financial magazines in the world, from top university studies, and from respected hospital organizations.
You provide nothing to support your anti-vaxx position, which is so very typical. And that is often because the anti-vaxx is based on politically motivated talk shows parading as news that use conspiracy theories as their basis. People just like to be mad instead of educated.
Look you can ignore the science and embrace the political positions of those leveraging conspiracy theories. You do have the right the right to avoid getting vaccinated.
But you do not have the legal right to to not be vaccinated and then expect your employer to keep you employed if they do not want the risk and cost of keeping the unvaccinated employed. HIPAA is not a valid reason for your employer to not ask your vaccination status
People like you would ensure we would still have polio, chicken pox, rabies, hepatitis, typhoid, HPV, Diptheria, meningitus, encaphalitus, shingles, and cholera. People like you fought against seat belts because it affected "my freedom" and said the science on them was questionable . But now almost everyone sees the wisdom in seat belts. Too bad millions will need to die out of ignorance until people see the wisdom in vaccines.
Until science was politicized by President 45 people did the smart thing when it came to health and science. Now there is a group of people that do what their politicians tell them to do no matter what the risk is to themselves and the general population. And that is a shame. 93 percent of those dying from Covid are unvaccinated and are costing the American population hundreds of billions in unnecessary health care costs all while willing taking the chance of infecting their fellow Americans.
I hope you dont get ill. I hope you do not infect your family and friends. I hope you do not infect your community or co-workers. But it saddens many of us the willful disregard you place in protecting the health of others and the lack of care you show by running the risk of being one of those who take an ICU bed away from someone who needs it. Thousands have died because they cannot get into an ICU bed being occupied by someone who is unvaccinated. These are all verifiable facts to anyone with any intellectual curiosity.
It is hard to tell if it is selfishness or blind obedience to a political position that drives this position. It certainly is not of a position borne out of science and social consciousness.
Spoken like a selfish me too, UnAmerican.
When I see the sources of your info (like Bloomberg, really?) I just have to laugh. I'll do what's best for me and my health, you do you.
If you are still waiting on facts after two years you are not paying attention or embracing mistruths.
No. There have been truths published from the best in the field. Since you resist facts, here are some more. If you have any facts, why dont you provide them. IOr is facebook your favorite source of truth?
"If you are fully vaccinated, to maximize protection from the Delta variant and prevent possibly spreading it to others, wear a mask indoors in public if you are in an area of substantial or high transmission."
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/prevent-getting-sick/about-face-coverings.html
“Unvaccinated COVID-19 hospitalizations cost billions of dollars” “Covid was the third leading cause of American deaths in 2020”
https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/brief/unvaccinated-covid-patients-cost-the-u-s-health-system-billions-of-dollars/
"Family says Alabama man was turned away from 43 packed ICUs before dying"
https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/571957-family-says-alabama-man-was-turned-away-from-43-packed-hospitals-before
'Cost of Covid: Hospital stays longer, more costly for difficult treatment"
https://www.salemreporter.com/posts/5118/cost-of-covid-hospital-stays-longer-more-costly-for-difficult-treatment
"More Than 7.38 Billion Shots Given: Covid-19 Tracker. In the U.S., 434 million doses have been administered". “While the best vaccines are highly effective at preventing hospitalization and death, it takes a coordinated campaign to stop a pandemic. Infectious-disease experts have said that vaccinating 70% to 85% of the U.S. population would enable a return to normalcy, but boosters may be required to keep the disease in check.”
https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/covid-vaccine-tracker-global-distribution/
"Unvaccinated are 16 times more likely to end up in the ICU or die from COVID-19, new study shows"
https://fortune.com/2021/11/09/unvaccinated-death-icu-covid-19-australia-study/
“Can face masks help slow the spread of the coronavirus (SARS-CoV-2) that causes COVID-19? Yes. Face masks combined with other preventive measures, such as getting vaccinated, frequent hand-washing and physical distancing, can help slow the spread of the virus.”
https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/coronavirus/in-depth/coronavirus-mask/art-20485449
“A large, randomized trial led by researchers at Stanford Medicine and Yale University has found that wearing a surgical face mask over the mouth and nose is an effective way to reduce the occurrence of COVID-19 in community settings.” “There were significantly fewer COVID-19 cases in villages with surgical masks compared with the control villages. (Although there were also fewer COVID-19 cases in villages with cloth masks as compared to control villages, the difference was not statistically significant.).”
https://med.stanford.edu/news/all-news/2021/09/surgical-masks-covid-19.html
I'm still waiting on facts... Both sides are nothing but half truths
Okay, here are the facts so maybe you can rethink your position
But Isn’t COVID-19 Vaccination Status Confidential Medical Information?
Yes. Documentation or other information regarding an individual’s vaccination status is confidential medical information under the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA) and some state privacy laws. This means that you must treat this information as confidential and store it separately from the employee’s personnel file.
The federal requirement to treat vaccination status as confidential information does not, however, prevent employers or businesses from asking their employees or their visitors whether they have been vaccinated against COVID-19. Note that some states, such as Montana, have enacted legislation restricting employers from asking employees and/or visitors about their vaccination status. The EEOC has also published helpful information about this subject.
Bottom Line: Can We Ask Whether Employees and Customers Are Vaccinated?
Yes, HIPAA does not prevent employers and businesses from asking their employees and visitors whether they have been vaccinated against COVID-19 and for proof of such vaccination. Once you have the information, it must be treated as confidential, meaning that it is not shared with others except under limited circumstances and as noted, is not even kept in an employee’s personnel file.
"Sure here are the facts. HIPPA rules only pertain to medical providers. Period. Not that hard."
Please elaborate on this in the context of this post. Thanks.
Sure here are the facts. HIPPA rules only pertain to medical providers. Period. Not that hard.
OK, if you disagree on facts, then tell us what those facts are. Can you actually do that? A cult member cannot.
LOL-if I disagree with you it is because of facts. Your reference to a cult demonstrates your low IQ.
Lol, if you disagree with me you're in a cult... Cute.
@iwat-HIPPA applies to medical providers-period. There is a myth, you are perpetuating it, that others violate HIPPA by asking for medical information.
"facts"... Right
So the prior poster provided easily verifiable third party documented evidence that the unvaccinated are
Now, for our QAnon, Fox, Breitbart, and OAN readers. Do you have one scintilla of reliable data data that proves these claims false?
" lol, you're doing a good job, the brainwashing is working ;)"
You dont brainwash with facts. It is the Cult of 45 through Fox, Breitbart, and Qanon who do the brainwashing with lies.
Any prove from the delusional FBJ and Brandon insurrectionists that vaccines dont lower hospital ICU stays and deaths by about 94% and cost $250,000 on average? That the unvaccinated are costing the United States BILLIONS taxpayer and employer in uneccessary expenses?
https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/brief/unvaccinated-covid-patients-cost-the-u-s-health-system-billions-of-dollars/
"From June through November 2021, preventable COVID-19 hospitalizations among unvaccinated adults cost over $13 Billion" This is $2.5 BILLION in unneccessary costs per month. Over two years this is $50+ BILLION in hospital bills alone, not to mention billions more in lost productivity and sick time.
"Over 690,000 COVID-19 hospitalizations could have been prevented by vaccination between June to November 2021"
"The monetary cost of treating unvaccinated people for COVID-19 is borne not only by patients but also by society more broadly, including taxpayer-funded public programs and private insurance premiums paid by workers, businesses, and individual purchasers." <---- Meaning: Anti Vaxxers are truly socialists
@1afc+1eFrfg1Z lol, you're doing a good job, the brainwashing is working ;)
I love the insurrectionists who feel their childish FJB and Brandon comments have meaning.
What those comments show is that the authors
It would be nice if people had the intelligence and integrity to use facts and critical thinking in their posts rather than the well worn tropes they resort to.
Why a few folks always have to bring politics into this forum shows simply illustrates how deep into Cult45 some are.
Unvaccinated Americans have cost their employers and government over one hundred BILLION in unnecessary hospital bills. Over 825,000 dead Americans with about 92 percent that die today doing do unnecessarily.
A stay in the ICU for Covid can reach $250,000 per patient. 92 percent or more of people in ICUs for Covid are unvacciated. About 60 percent of America is vaccinated.
That means you are about TWENTY times more likely to run up an UNNECESSARY Covid hospital of over one quarter of a million dollars. And then you will complain why your raise is only 2 percent.
You have the freedom to not take the vaccine. Allstate has the freedom to hire and fire at will in most states because of state.
Freedom is not a one way street.
How to tell someone you don’t know about HIPPA without saying you don’t know anything about HIPPA.
If remote employees require weekly testing or vax this just proves it's about control not safety since they aren't around other employees anyway. Just plain d-mb if they do that.
They’re entitled to ask for this information because Biden issued an Executive Order for OSHA to produce this rule. Even though it’s stalled in the Courts, companies need to prepare as if it will go into effect.