Thread regarding IBM layoffs

@1nct+1beUeseK you are right to go back to drawing board problem.

But the problem here is that not any major cloud providers would go back to drawing board to support MF. And eventually, people and customers both are seeing IBM MF as totally opposite concepts.

In my opinion, cloud was invented to resolve the flaws by mainframes and legacy systems. Now they have advanced so much that MF is really looking trash. And customers are not ready for that much of complexity. Even hybrid cloud infrastructure is much more complex that just a definition.

All I could say is where do we want to see IBM on the next 10 years. A mainframe company (producing 2-3 billion revenue for MF) or a real cloud company providing public, private and hybrid cloud solutions regardless of any OS or Cloud services.

"Don't try to mix mainframes with clouds. "

Seems to me, if your cloud software is written in portable languages, it should be able to be compiled to any target platform, including mainframes.

There's nothing about zSeries or even z/OS that prevents it from being a platform to run cloud services on... no matter what the current state of affairs in that space may be.

If the cloud software doesn't port to the mainframe platform... the software developers need to go back to the drawing board...

@1rhy+1beUeseK those are opposing views because the "director" person (and many others) does not recognize that ibm has failed at public cloud already and only after that this hybrid story is being cooked.

Ibm can't throw away mainframes without 1st investing and winning significant market share of public cloud.
They're suggesting to sell mainframes and why it is opposing view.

Ibm cannot compete in public cloud even with small startups, forget about top 3 who have significant $$ to stifle any competition.

I can't believe that someone here says they're director and people start simping for them, this is not one of those ibm internal blogs where people comment "great move" etc.

@1rhy nailed it.

10 years ago the right move would have been to separate the Mainframe and associated legacy businesses (MF storage, DB2, etc.) from the Cloud business. Run the former as a mature, stable cash cow for investors who want their regular dividends. And run the other like a desperate startup, reinvesting every cent you can make or borrow into building out capacity.

Unfortunately it's way too late for that now. IBM is so far behind in Cloud that the only business it can hope to win is "hybrid" - i.e. existing IBM MF customers who also need a cloud story.

The two opposing views being expressed here aren't necessarily in conflict.
1) The mainframe is dying, that market is shrinking, IBM needs to move away from it.
2) The mainframe is central to the IBM strategy, it's IBM's only real competitive advantage.
Both can be and are true.
This dilemma is the root cause of the decline the last 8-9 years.

Correct, we all visit this site frequently. Our org director was also afraid of lay offs. Anyone can get targeted, not only band 8-9s. He told once in a team building meeting that he was asked twice by VP that we want to scrap your team and he somehow has shown POC of the work they were doing to get another chance. But after 2-3 years, entire team of 90 people got scrapped.

It is nice to see a director (mid-level management) posting here. I am glad to hear that he/she has the same concerns as the other regular employees which is frankly that the current strategy is not working, and it is ki----g IBM slowly but surely.

Please post anytime, we want to hear from you.
Thank you!

@1tuf+1beUeseK i never suggested ocp was developed for mainframes!!

Ask this question to yourself: "why would any client buy ocp from ibm to run apps on cloud and on prem?"

The answer is that ibm thinks because those customers have mainframes as their on prem, the customers will buy their software (ocp+rh) to run those same apps on any other public cloud if they have to.
If ibm does away with mainframes then their weak argument for selling ocp is further weakened because now they own none of the platforms, namely public or on prem.

Bro I am not the director, other user.

But let me clarify ocp+RH has nothing to do with mainframes. And RH hasn't developed OpenShift thinking anything related to mainframes. ( I was a developer in a core OpenShift team. Moved to IBM after RH deal). OpenShift is the platform which deploy services on any cloud securely. It's not for mainframes. On prem deployments expects any cloud locally using OpenShift.

So stop relating mainframes. Hybrid Z is a sh-t show to force customers with poor products. Essentially they all would go, similar to last 5 years. Someone has posted in some other posts, mainframes are already being migrated to AWS & Azure.

I support director's view. Cloud is way better and much more flexible compared to traditional mainframes.

@fnb+1beUeseK, mister director says:

"Hybrid cloud in our (executive) terms means you can deploy your applications on public cloud with some portion in customer's own secure environment, called private cloud. That's essentially hybrid cloud. And that's why we have bought Redhat to align our product offerings. "

customers will either buy services from a company that sells them private cloud/on prem(mainframes) or public cloud (aws,azure or gcp).

Since IBM has abandoned the public cloud altogether, their only hope is to sell (force) those services (ocp+ RH) to those customers who cannot migrate away from mainframes.

If ibm abandons mainframes then it has no platform upon which the customer is dependent, and hence they would never buy any services (ocp+ RH) from ibm.

So, what don't you get?

Bro, if you are director, I am AK and I support my friend Tom R. We are nothing more than mainframes. Our cloud is joke. In cognitive we play Watson Watson. Mainframe is the heart of IBM. If you don't know mainframes, you can't survive here. IBM is the only company who invented mainframes. No you leave from here. I am pi---d. I am firing all directors across IBM.

I don't care why you mentioned director level, but in general I agree with some of your points.

IBM should have only 1 business unit which is cloud & cognitive. Other services department is also fine. That should be it.

In my opinion, z is anyway struggling since 2015. Z15 was slightly good, but I don't feel combining mainframe and cloud concepts together. For example, AWS doesn't have any offering in their cloud which depends on mainframes. Similarly no other clouds. And that's what customer feels. Don't try to mix mainframes with clouds.

Remember IBM was one of the biggest PC maker, but they sold it to Lenovo for good. That's how they have to switch off mainframes for their own good.

Meanwhile, IBM can do something unique for their fortune 500 and move their workload to IBM cloud at least without much hassle. That should be real win.

I am at director level that's the reason, I am hiding my identity. Believe it or not HR visits this page and also some of the VPs.

The reason I am telling this is, based on my own experience in the last 5 years.

1) I was running 3 teams under cloud. But the products were cr---y and they had to remove the teams. Not all laid offs but moved to other teams. The main reason being customers don't accept us as cloud company is still IBM is called a mainframe company.

2) Hybrid cloud in our (executive) terms means you can deploy your applications on public cloud with some portion in customer's own secure environment, called private cloud. That's essentially hybrid cloud. And that's why we have bought Redhat to align our product offerings.

Now, what customers are asking us, what mainframe has to do with hybrid cloud that sales people uses the term hybrid z. To charge more, IBM is trying to create hybrid z offering. Customers are already frustrated by cloud paks & OpenShift layers instead of just a normal public cloud offering; and now sales terminology trying to include hybrid z layer to it.

This is fu----g bull sh-t. And now it's time to sale all z and systems, IN MY VIEW.

So no offense to anyone. But this is truth. I am already in retirement age, but IBM is shrinking since last decade. I can't see that as it was today's Google when I joined.

To the director talking on this board:

1. WTF you are posting here, you are most likely a useless manager
2. I hope you are not my Director (yes, I am C&CS)
3. If you are my Director, may be you should have a All Hands call to introduce yourself instead of hiding
4. You really don't understand WTF you talking about, do you?
5. ...

What does "hybrid cloud" mean according to ibm?

It means Cloud plus whatever other random stuff wants to stick under Cloud Revenue.

Sorta like a jackalope, especially that part about it not being real.

They can & will make the numbers say whatever they want. Toss the mainframe & this company is over, because there is no way it would survive on cloud alone. Really, IBM cloud all by itself?…. What a joke

Apparently, you don’t know squat about this company. IBMs financial engineering has been tooling with the “cloud” revenue numbers for many years, ever since the CAMMS Bu*t (CAMSS – Cloud, Analytics, Mobile, Social, Security) which started shifting mainframe revenue with cloud

@kxd+1beUeseK just answer this:

What does "hybrid cloud" mean according to ibm?

@pkt+1beUeseK I agree with you. But let me tell you the time has gone for mainframes. Have seen any new grad working in mainframes or learning zos skills? Have you seen outside IBM anyone cared about zos or mainframes improvements?

Everyone only cares about moving to cloud and enhance AI capabilities. And that's the future if you accept or not.

And IBM's reputation is still a mainframe company. They want to grow in hybrid cloud, they need to do better with their portfolio and work on cloud offering removing unnecessary dependency on zos or any obsolete products.

Lastly, that's their marketing strategy about fortune 500 clients. Mainframes revenue has declined from 20 billions to 4-5 billions recently. And it's harming our status or image of cloud company.

@sgi+1beUeseK hahahaha i can't stop laughing😂😂😂😂

Sell mainframes!!?
How did you become a director?

All the "hybrid" bs is based on ibm having monopoly in mainframes and still having those banks,airlines,insurance as clients aka the top 500

Is TSS safe?

If you work in power systems then consider leaving very very seriously. Either retire, leave for outside or change teams asap.
Power is finished.

I would lay off entire systems BU. And sell mainframes to other tier 2 or 3 IT company. If they really want to focus on hybrid cloud and open-source based Redhat products.

Migrating zos, DB2, Cognos on OpenShift and cloud pak wouldn't work at all. That's what IBM is doing since last 10 years. It's time to dump all BUs except Cloud and cognitive and GBS for services only related to cloud. That's the future.

Mainframes are anyways making 3-4 billions revenue which is negligence and affect us badly.

PS: I am a director from cloud and cognitive. And sharing my views.

No idea, but everyone believes it is coming at some point.

I think some other fellow on this board said that nothing will happen until after GTS is fully jettisoned to Kyndryl. I have to agree with that, Once Kyndryl is on its own, IBM will look at how many employees are left, and from there will start cutting to end up where it wants to be from an expense perspective.

Always remember that these days it is all about expenses at IBM since revenues will either not grow or marginally grow. Employees are the biggest expense, and NO... IBM does not care about letting skills out the door because the new IBM strategy is outsource everything to BPs.

Good Luck all! The IBM at the end of Q1 2022 will be very different.