I was told by a reliable source that layoffs will be handed out at the end of January if the Max’s return Is officially pushed out till March of 2020. Has anyone been told the same?
27 replies (most recent on top)
Word of layoffs; None
Boeing 777X’s fuselage split dramatically during stress test
https://www.seattletimes.com/business/boeing-aerospace/boeing-777xs-fuselage-split-dramatically-during-september-stress-test/
And Yes Dominic, Boeing will have to do a retest.
The 777 will be setting a new standard for flight operations.
Boeing 737 MAX 8: Fit to fly again?
https://www.thejakartapost.com/academia/2019/11/26/boeing-737-max-8-fit-to-fly-again.html
- Click Bate
Jakarta / Tue, November 26, 2019 / 10:08 am
News from three other countries
Transport Canada working with other regulators to co-ordinate
737 Max return to the skies
https://www.thestar.com/politics/federal/2019/11/21/transport-canada-working-with-other-regulators-to-co-ordinate-boeing-737-max-return-to-the-skies.html
737 Max may not return until next year, SMBC warns
https://www.independent.ie/business/boeing-737-max-may-not-return-until-next-year-smbc-warns-38715371.html
https://www.thisdaylive.com/index.php/2019/11/22/future-of-b737max/
QUOTE:
We are working towards final validation of the updated training requirements,
Which must occur before the MAX returns to commercial service
And which we now expect to begin in January
Boeing Got 50 Orders for the MAX, a Plane Still Not Allowed to Fly.
Here’s Why
https://www.barrons.com/articles/why-boeing-keeps-getting-orders-for-the-737-max-51574188146?mod=hp_LATEST
Boeing 737 MAX Update:
World's Regulators Split On How To Get Plane Flying Again.
https://www.ibtimes.com/boeing-737-max-update-worlds-regulators-split-how-get-plane-flying-again-2869442
- Word of Layoffs is all just rumors So Far
Pickle Fork MATH: 275,000 x 50 = $13,750,000
This $13,750,000 cost is just for the repairs, on the known aircraft at this time.
Add the loss of revenue due to grounding, based on numbers from the DOT
An aircraft of this size generates around $150,000 per day that’s gross revenue.
21 days X $150,000 = $3,150,000 X 50 planes = $157,500,000
So this little hiccup will cost 171 million 250 thousand dollars for these 50 aircraft.
(Actual Profit) for the Airline is (Dismal).
However the gross revenue best represents lost work and Lost Tax Revenue.
In doing the math I subtracted out the aircraft production from 1997 to 2007,
That totaled 2,366: That leaves 4,559 planes with 284 aircraft at 12 years of age.
Reverse Math or Proofing; for the Defect Percentage using the 284 aircraft.
That works out to {17.8%} of that (2008) 12 year old fleet in need of repair.
That places the total Liability of the 4,559 aircraft x 17.8% at (811 aircraft).
Cost Liability for the fleet dating to 2008 = 2 billion 777 million 675 thousand.
That’s $2,777,675,000 for the Pickle Fork issues.
737 Max: About 370 of the jets are grounded around the world.
Costing millions of dollars per day, says Phil Seymour, of IBA Aviation.
In doing the math based on the $150,000 per day cost - Here We Go
370 Planes X $150,000 = $55,500,000 X 300 Days = $16,650,000,000
Add the cost of weekly maintenance, then restoration to Flight Readiness.
Now there’s the matter of all the aircraft we have parked and Growing.
I can hear Carl Sagan now, Billions and Billions and Billions, oh my
The known cost by the end of December = $19,427,675,000
The Boeing Board of Directors Debacle will cost, more than 20 Billion Dollars
Not counting the Boeing Fleet parked and growing.
https://theconversation.com/boeing-737-max-how-much-could-the-grounded-fleet-cost-the-company-114863
https://www.npr.org/2019/03/13/703189895/for-boeing-costs-of-grounding-jets-have-only-just-begun
ID10T Poet did the math
https://www.airliners.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=555743
Regarding; Southwest pilots urge not to buy Boeing.
Unfortunately for the staff at Southwest Airlines, just like here a Boeing
They have a Top/Down management that is solely focused on dollars.
At the old Boeing the leadership in engineering could have said no.
On the other hand to fly an Airbus is to fly a computer that fly’s the plane.
Hands on pilots have always prefer Boeing aircraft, they have always been
the benchmark. Until now with the MCAS system getting between the
pilot and the airplane.
Here at Renton, we do have the solution for better control, fourteen ropes.
Wow with the facts coming out, professionals in aviation are far more than angry.
https://www.courthousenews.com/pilots-urge-southwest-airlines-not-to-buy-boeing-max/
Jon Weaks, president of the Southwest Airlines Pilots Association,
Wrote in a letter to union members that.
“Boeing will never, and should not ever, be given the benefit of the doubt again,”
Weaks said.
“The combination of arrogance, ignorance, and greed should and will haunt
Boeing for eternity.
I strongly concur with Southwest exploring obtaining a different and perhaps
non-Boeing aircraft for the best interest of all our futures.”
How much of this is pomp for a better deal we will never know.
It’s a shame the Max is actually the best 737 for handling and performance.
MCAS and All of Its Proponents have Skunked It.
Boeing is targeting a resumption of deliveries for the MAX
In December 2019:
IF the Seattle-based aircraft manufacturer gets the approval of the FAA.
The return to commercial air service of the aircraft will be more complicated.
Other certification bodies will certainly take a step-by-step approach.
The 737 MAX will be certified At Best in Europe in the first quarter of 2020.
The Re-Flight within airlines may take more time.
“On A Global Scale, It Could Extend Over Twelve Months”,
Said David Calhoun, President of Boeing.
Shut Down, Furloughs?
https://www.aircosmosinternational.com/article/boeing-737-max-four-more-steps-before-returning-to-flight-2651
Four other key points remain: And it’s all going to get done in 4 weeks.
I thought Boeing was a d–g free work place.
I see that policy does not apply to the board room.
At best, Snake Oil Salesmen.
At worst? We will have to wait for the verdicts from the ICC in The Hague.
No thanks, its a played out tired 55 year old flying death trap
Don’t sell the engineers short, the 737 still has legs and we’ve got talent.
Our New Max;
The latest iteration will have additional insulation for a far quieter flight.
The material is made of nano-structured anhydrous magnesium carbonate.
The trade name is Upsalite. This material is also one of the world’s most
absorbent material’s, capable of absorbing several hundred times its weight.
The new model will have the designation 737-10X Max Pad.
Not only will the aircraft be quieter, lighter and more fuel efficient
It will also absorb all Bio hazards on impact greatly reducing the cost
of clean-up. This latest version was inspired by high customer demand
Because at Boeing we listen.
I don't know if you are engineering or shop...but the February layoffs will be engineering only and they have less to do with the MAX directly and more to do with "Engineering Realignment"
They will also be in all engineering locations (not just WA)
For those who do not know "realignment" is one of the many ways to say layoffs without saying it.
I have heard the shop and line folks will be fine. There is too much work to be done and too many deliveries to make to let anyone go.
Did U know there as many Galaxies as there are grains of sand on this planet?
I see that the job market is on fire.
A Thousand Points of Light.
Just Say No.
Be Best.
The first sentence is based on statistical calculus founded on the
Observable Universe.
The second sentence on an observational study of the job market.
The last three sentences are from well know people however each of them
Were Ill Informed and completely dissociated from all the nuances of life.
It matters not what I think
It matters less what I think I Know
For all of this will pass, pay no attention to the noise
ID10T Poet
I heard from someone in Everett layoffs will start in February of 2020 if the max isn’t approved by december
Boeing head of commercial aircraft public relations resigns.
Linda Mills, is leaving the company.
Eject Eject Eject
To the commenter below:
There was a good deal of sarcasm in my post.
(And No Layoffs) Yah Right, the circumstances are most dire.
I listened to every single word in that interview with David Calhoun.
There was a very strong under tone of shutting down the 737 line.
Stopping production was his first thought, I believe Dennis stopped that.
I don’t believe stopping production is in any way positive for Boeing.
Continuing production shows that Boeing believes in the Max product.
I Completely Agree With You:
I see two trains at full speed on the same track traveling in opposite directions.
Will we make it to the switch line in time?
If the Max is given a separate Type Designation (Worst Case)
I don’t see passenger service (starting) until May of 2020 (Reality Check)
Respectfully:
ID10T Poet
While I am a big fan of ID10T Poet and usually agree, I think we are fast approaching a breaking point.
The stock surged yesterday when the CEO said he wants to start delivering aircraft before the training is approved or even before it is approved for service.
While this may sound good, there is a dark reason this and it is a long shot at best. Cash flow was negative in the 3rd quarter. The 737 is the cash cow, on average accounting for almost 60% of Boeing revenues. Starting deliveries will start the clock on customers paying for them (regardless of if they can use them). This is a money play, pure and simple. If it works, ID10T Poet is right, no layoffs.
If it does not work, the cuts will go deep and will not be limited to the 737 line or even to Washington state.
Either way, we will know by Jan 1 which direction it goes.
A thousand scr-aped airplanes lie in the desert sea,
Breathe deep the gathering gloom,
Watch lights fade from every room.
Manager people look back and lament,
Another day's useless energy spent.
A thousand sc-aped airplanes lie in the desert sea,
A thousand A321’s fly above that same desert sea.
Cold hearted full moon that rules tonight
14 baboons dancing with delight
You see there’s no Claw-Backs
they thought right
https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2019/05/06/safety-was-just-given-inside-boeings-boardroom-amid-max-crisis/
- A Reliable Source You Say
Well do tell and don't spare any detail, that’s a board level decision.
The Max isn't flying passengers until it gets trained pilots.
No training has been approved.
An FAA pilot will sit in a simulator when Boeing can pass the software audit.
No software approval; No systems approval; No plane approval
No training approval; No Transport Pilots
And No Layoffs
Word:
ID10T Poet said it
Airbus describes October as a landmark month for the company in terms
of new business, with orders logged for 415 new commercial aircraft.
This includes one of the company’s largest-ever transactions with a
single airline operator, and overall bookings that significantly strengthened
the extra-long-range A321XLR’s market positioning – while the 77 deliveries
brought the total number of A320neo/A321neo jetliners delivered to
customers/operators above the 1,000 mark.
Leading October orders was Indian carrier IndiGo’s for 300 additional
A320neo Family aircraft, taking its overall order for the type to 730.
https://www.aviationnews-online.com/technology/airbus-reports-october-orders-and-deliveries/
After the furloughs I'll be back on February First.
(Boeing Hopes) to deliver 737 MAX aircraft to airlines before the end of year
Even if regulators haven’t approved the related pilot training.
Delivering aircraft before regulatory approvals are complete would
Relieve pressure on the manufacturer as it contemplates further cutting
or halting MAX production amid the protracted grounding.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/boeing-seeks-blessing-to-deliver-737-max-as-faa-reviews-pilot-training-11573421213?mod=business_lead_pos4
Nov. 10, 2019 4:26 pm ET
Earnings for the first nine months of the year at $229 million
versus $7 billion for the same period in 2018.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesasquith/2019/11/11/boeings-troubles-quietly-go-from-bad-to-worsewould-you-fly-on-a-737-max/#37bd51cf4407
I'll be here on Feb 1 with a big...
NOPE
Just Let It Go. Get out while you still have a soul. This is an opportunity
https://www.businessinsider.com/boeing-ceo-congress-grilled-moving-737-max-cases-indonesia-2019-10
Is this when Boeing collegials will start? Or when the layoff slips will be given out. Either way, if January is the goal, collegials will then start in November. Layoffs at Boeing is random unless you are special. If you have buddies in higher management, of course you will be OK. Many others will be worried.
Given the company’s commitment to customers and a substantial effort to fix this
Mess I see work continuing on all fronts to deliver aircraft without disruption to
The supply chain. The plan is to draw from inventory and production to deliver
70 aircraft a month, that’s cash flow.
This is my Opinion based on every reliable source I could read, not what I hear.
If you’re that concerned have a backup plan. I had a job before working for
Boeing and I did not have to go through two years of interviews to get it.
Nov 9, 2019
https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/independent-review-of-boeing-737-max-finds-design-changes-safe-1.1345529
People have been saying this for MONTHS. Its stressful, yeah, but we'll be just fine.