Just wanted the readers opinion. I retired from IBM a couple years ago. I was in a technical role and I was one of the top technical talents in technical sales and highly respected. Anyway I got bored being retired and still have tons of energy and I knew I could excel again if I came back to IBM. The net is that they made me an offer at 2 band levels below where I was at when I left. I regretted turning down the offer in hindsight because I loved what I did there, loved the people I worked with, and loved working with customers. As the late Steve Jobs said, you have to love what you do and then you will do great things. At the time, I felt the offer at two band levels lower was disrespectful and dishonored me and would have mean me losing my dignity. Was I wrong thinking this?
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Too bad so many people are impacted, I remember having to let people go in the 90's and just this week. I've had, like many people on this forum to say goodbye to many friends that I've worked with over the years. Very sad days .... good luck to everyone.
IBM did a 360
Is this a reference to mainframe?
Or that IBM spun around and we ended up exactly where we started?
I am hearing IBM is targeting bands 8 and 9 for the layoffs. This might explain why they are only hiring at band 7 or less in the global markets. Guessing each of the market General Managers have known about this RA for quite some time and that is why the band 7 or lower hire mandate was in place.
Saw where RAs this week is under the code name of Falcon. Some jobs are moving to India as well.
IBM did a 360
Making years of bashing naysayers look bad.
Sounds like you made IBM your life instead of having a life. To be happy, take any level that is offered and return to the IBM LIFE.
Since when did IBM respect any of us? After the 93 blood bath we all became resources to be used and tossed aside.
Enjoy the memories, the friendships, and the successes but look forward bc the odds you'll return and have the same experience are low.
The culture and stress is definitely higher. Arvind and Rob Thomas seem to think negative reinforcement is the best way to get the sales team to sell more. Come close to your quota numbers to in 6 months or go on a death sentence PIP. The environment is now considered just as bad as Oracle if not worse. People at Oracle do not stay there very long. IBM is hiring sales and tech sales early professional people in 2025 thinking they will replace all the experienced people they PIPed. Constant negative reinforcement for any job and any human does not work Arvind and Rob. Go back to your college management 101 textbooks and psychology textbooks. I have an ask of Arvind and Rob Thomas. Offer to take a temporary job in field sales for 6 months. Let’s see how well you do. We all have doubts that customers would even seriously consider you to be a trusted advisor.
I’m not sure why anyone would come back. The culture is at an all-time low. The stress and demands are higher than ever . I’ve been at IBM for 18 years . The exodus of US employees is happening at a fast pace. I know very few people who can say they love their job and IBM. In fact, I don’t know anyone in my group.
Suffice to say, I’ve decided to retire effective the end of October. Not looking back once I do.
I do not understand the global market’s reasoning behind all this. I know people who came back at 2 - 3 levels below where they were previously at IBM and they negotiate larger salaries. Is there that much of overlap between a band 7 salary range and band 9-10?
This all seems so rediculous.
Just goes to show that some people can be great at their jobs yet clueless on handling life…only a simp would agree to come back under those terms
Stockholm syndrome anyone?
It is like an ex-con who decides he'd rather go back to prison...
I guess as Spock from Star Trek would say. Going back to IBM at 2 levels lower than when you left is illogical.
Are you out of your Vulcan mind?!?
At what age did you leave? I say "leave" and not "retire" because, here in beautiful Canada, once you are "retired," IBM cannot re-hire you at any band level. Furthermore, if you leave any time after you turn 55, you are deemed to have "retired." So, if you were in Canada and you "left" or "retired" after you turned 55, you can't come back. Not sure if those rules apply elsewhere.
I also retired from IBM last year, but will not think of gettting back in there.
Congratulations on making it to retirement. If you're good at what you do, why would you take anything less than what you’re worth? And if you’re just doing it for fun, then why not do it for an organization or purpose that needs but maybe can’t get someone with your talents, but has a mission that is worthwhile to you?
You’re pining for a relationship you had with a different person. The IBM you left is not the IBM that is there now. The company you loved has been replaced by an Indian guy in a cheap suit, who is probably laughing at you with his cronies, many of them just fancy isotopes of scammers in a call center. Don’t get catfished.
Your only mistake was not running as fast and as far away as possible the minute they showed you who they were by lowballing and demoting you with that insult offer. You made the right decision. Trust your instincts. No regrets.
There is a very simple answer...go with your gut. If you were insulted, then without a doubt there was a very good reason. Don't overthink this...go elsewhere.
As has been pointed out already, IBM isn't a charity and you should should get paid what you are worth as a technical seller. Going from B9 to a B7 or B6 is a waste of your talents and energy. It's no longer pay for performance.
There are still good sales jobs at other companies which treat you better than IBM ever will. Think Alvind and the Pipmunks because that's what you will be looking at eventually - a PIP to push you out, no matter how good you think you are. IBM Sales is no longer the place that it once was (10 years ago). It is in a state of stagnation / deterioration and the best sales people have left already. What might have been true 2 years ago no longer holds today. Technology changes and the markets keep changing all over. Just compare the IBM revenues for the past year and you should notice they are not anywhere close to they were even 10 years ago. Cooking the books seems to be the norm these days.
If you still have the energy and passion for technical sales, suggest you look elsewhere. Life is better after IBM.
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Whilst you need to love what you do; getting paid what you're worth is important. IBM isn't a charity, no matter what wages they try to foist on the peons. If you're as good as you say you are, you'll do wonderfully in other orgs - don't feel bad about turning them down.
Perspective from development org here rather than technical sales, so ymmv.
The devil is in the detail here. Band 10 -> 8 wouldn't be quite as unreasonable as going from 9 -> 7 or 8 -> 6.
My take is that Band 10+ involves a level of assumed leadership that someone slotting into a role for a few years might put a few noses out of joint given there's a bunch of people desperate to get those B9s & B10s in the existing org who are waiting years for their stupid promotion system to give them what they honestly deserve.
Band 8/9 would be 'you are a senior enough developer' - and assume some degree of leadership without massive amounts of immediate assumed deference. If I left as a B9, I'd want to return at least at B8... but if I left as a B8, I'd want to still return to at least as a B8 - as B7 and below really feels pretty junior. I'd say that budget / seniority wise, there's a lot more scope for B8s joining than B9s, for example.
That said, I know good developers who go their entire career as B7s, so what the he-l do I know? I'd just have been frustrated by that as who the he-l can afford a mortgage on that salary these days.