Thread regarding IBM layoffs

IBM Explores Sale of IBM Watson Health

Here we go. . . How many folks beyond those just in Watson Health get packaged & shipped-out with this deal?

By: Laura Cooper and Cara Lombardo
Updated Feb. 18, 2021 8:21 pm ET

https://www.wsj.com/articles/ibm-explores-sale-of-ibm-watson-health-11613696770
Business has roughly $1 billion in revenue and isn’t profitable, sources say

International Business Machines Corp. IBM 0.63% is exploring a potential sale of its IBM Watson Health business, according to people familiar with the matter, as the technology giant’s new chief executive moves to streamline the company and become more competitive in cloud computing.

IBM is studying alternatives for the unit that could include a sale to a private-equity firm or industry player or a merger with a blank-check company, the people said. The unit, which employs artificial intelligence to help hospitals, insurers and d–gmakers manage their data, has roughly $1 billion in annual revenue and isn’t currently profitable, the people said.

Its brands include Merge Healthcare, which analyzes mammograms and MRIs; Phytel, which assists with patient communications; and Truven Health Analytics, which analyzes complex healthcare data.

It isn’t clear how much the business might fetch in a sale, and there may not be one.

IBM, with a market value of $108 billion, has been left behind as cloud-computing rivals Microsoft Corp. and Amazon.com Inc. soar to valuations more than 10 times greater. The Armonk, N.Y., company has said it’s focused on boosting its hybrid-cloud operations while exiting some unrelated businesses.

IBM last year signaled its new focus with the appointment of Arvind Krishna, who had run the company’s cloud and cognitive-software division, to succeed longtime CEO Ginni Rometty.

In October, IBM said it planned to separate a major part of its information-technology services operations, which will be the company’s biggest-ever business exit. The unit manages clients’ IT infrastructure and accounts for nearly a quarter of IBM’s sales and staff.

Watson was one of IBM’s highest-profile initiatives in recent years and a big bet on the growing healthcare sector, though results disappointed in part because physicians were hesitant to adopt artificial intelligence.

The company spent billions buying up a collection of health-related businesses that are now part of IBM Watson Health, with the aim of combining them into a vast store of patient data and applying algorithms to extract useful insights.

IBM paid around $2.6 billion for Truven in 2016, almost $1 billion for Merge Healthcare in 2015 and around $230 million for Phytel, according to FactSet. Price tags for other acquisitions weren’t disclosed.

While the effort made strides in areas including oncology and genomics, it never became the cohesive business IBM envisioned and has lost key executives in recent years.

When it appointed Mr. Krishna CEO, IBM also named Jim Whitehurst —CEO of Red Hat, the open-source software company IBM acquired for about $33 billion in 2019—as its president, the first time in decades it has given an executive that title.

IBM saw the deal for Red Hat, the biggest in its history, as an opportunity to gain on competitors in cloud computing. It has said it is aiming for sustainable single-digit revenue growth after the planned spinoff of its managed-infrastructure business, which generates about $19 billion in annual revenue. IBM’s sales have fallen in more than two dozen quarters in the past decade.

by
| 7401 views | | 26 replies (last April 10, 2021) | Reply
Post ID: @OP+19ufREnL

26 replies (most recent on top)

Why IBM Watson Health could never live up to the promises –
https://medcitynews.com/2021/04/why-ibm-watson-health-could-never-live-up-to-the-promises/

by
| | Reply
Post ID: @Oyqd+19ufREnL

Need that $$ for dividend payoffs.

by
| | Reply
Post ID: @4fch+19ufREnL

The sad part of the POD cast is IBM let all of the innovators get hired by Facebook, google, Microsoft, and Amazon. They instead focused on buying data collection, and couldn’t merge/innovate it. Ginni how are those layoffs working out for you? It’s mighty hard to innovate when job 1 is shrink. I expect Watson Health is done for

by
| | Reply
Post ID: @4fro+19ufREnL

~14 minute podcast that's worth a listen.

IBM's Watson Illustrates Why Applying A.I. to Healthcare Is So Hard –
2/23/2021 3:00:00 AM

https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly92aWRlby1hcGkud3NqLmNvbS9wb2RjYXN0L3Jzcy93c2ovdGVjaC1uZXdzLWJyaWVmaW5n/episode/MmYwMmI0ZmEtNzVhZC0xMWViLTk5YzEtZGZjMmNhNjA1MGUw

by
| | Reply
Post ID: @4kck+19ufREnL
IBM IS just a mainframe company. What else have they succeeded at?

Typewriters?

by
| | Reply
Post ID: @4wxk+19ufREnL

@1ncb I have news for you, IBM IS just a mainframe company. What else have they succeeded at?

by
| | Reply
Post ID: @3bpv+19ufREnL

$1B in revenue? Oh yea? Show us the numbers IBM. Personally, I don't even believe that.

Watson Health is arguably such a toxic brand I'm surprised any company would be interested in it.

by
| | Reply
Post ID: @3hzo+19ufREnL

@kuy+19ufREnL, RE: Chapter 4, I remember someone asking Ginni at some event maybe back in 2016 or 2017, whether IBM is going into the consumer market and Ginni said "no" . Not sure if the inquirer was asking about AI or not, but it crossed my mind then that taking the "high road" of B2B approach may bite us later.

by
| | Reply
Post ID: @2kmp+19ufREnL

AK is just doing what Ginni has done for 8+ years... he is buying himself some time to cash in as long as he can... the guy, like Ginni, doesn't care about IBM... it is all about him making as much money as possible so he can retire (really) rich...

by
| | Reply
Post ID: @1yau+19ufREnL

@1naa+19ufREnL

Red Hat's day will come... When IBM sells Red Hat, it will be the time when IBM is just a mainframe company. It is not far away... give it about 5 years...

by
| | Reply
Post ID: @1ncb+19ufREnL

About six years ago now I told a friend of mine, a DE, "We'll know Watson is failing if they start sticking the brand on all kinds of analytics unrelated to it, just to claim that the revenues are strong".

Sure enough.

by
| | Reply
Post ID: @1qqu+19ufREnL

IBM’s Retreat From Watson Highlights Broader AI Struggles in Health –

By: Daniela Hernandez and Asa Fitch
Feb. 20, 2021 11:46 am ET
https://www.wsj.com/articles/ibms-retreat-from-watson-highlights-broader-ai-struggles-in-health-11613839579
Watson Health was billed as a ‘bet the ranch’ move by Big Blue; now the company is prepared to throw in the towel

Ten years ago, International Business Machine Corp.’s IBM -1.44% artificial intelligence system Watson bested humans at the quiz show “Jeopardy!”

The feat was supposed to herald a shift in the way machines served up answers to questions big and small, opening up new revenue streams for Big Blue specifically and Big Tech more generally. A key target: healthcare, a trillion-dollar industry many say is saddled with inefficiencies that some tech advocates say AI could cure.

A decade later, reality has fallen short of that promise. IBM is now exploring the sale of Watson Health, a unit whose marquee product was supposed to help doctors diagnose and cure cancer.

IBM spent several billion dollars on acquisitions to build up Watson. Former senior IBM executive John Kelly once touted the initiative as a “bet the ranch” move. It didn’t live up to the hype. Watson Health has struggled for market share in the U.S. and abroad and currently isn’t profitable.

Alphabet Inc.’s GOOG -0.76% Google DeepMind unit, which famously developed a Go-playing algorithm that vanquished a champion human player in 2016, later launched several healthcare-related initiatives focused on chronic conditions. It also has lost money in recent years and run into privacy concerns over how health data was being collected.

The stumbles highlight the challenges of attempting to apply AI to treating complex medical conditions, healthcare experts said. The hurdles include human, financial and technological barriers, they said. Having access to data that represents patient populations broadly has been a challenge, the experts say, as have gaps in knowledge about complex diseases whose outcomes often depend on many factors that may not be fully captured in clinical databases.

Tech companies also sometimes lack deep expertise in how healthcare works, adding to the challenge of implementing AI in patient settings, according to Thomas J. Fuchs, Mount Sinai Health System’s dean of artificial intelligence and human health.

“You truly have to understand the clinical workflow in the trenches,” he said. “You have to understand where you can insert AI and where it can be helpful” without slowing things down in the clinic.

For IBM, the retreat underscores the difficulties new CEO Arvind Krishna faces in restoring growth at the iconic tech company. Mr. Krishna has said AI, along with cloud-computing, would be pivotal for IBM’s prospects.

Watson Health was one of IBM’s first and the largest AI efforts, said Toni Sacconaghi, an analyst at Bernstein Research. IBM initially promoted it as an engine for growth, but more recently has given it less prominence amid mounting business struggles, leadership changes and layoffs, he said.

“Watson may be very emblematic of a broader issue at IBM of taking good science and finding a way to make it commercially relevant,” Mr. Sacconaghi said.

Even as Watson Health ran into problems, the company’s research arm has continued to give priority to AI and healthcare. IBM Research and Pfizer developed speech tests last year to predict the onset of Alzheimer’s disease, the company said last year.

IBM wouldn’t comment about the sale, but said Watson Health has had successes over the years. “This work began nearly 10 years ago, at the beginning of the AI revolution, and we explored groundbreaking space in helping physicians advance healthcare through AI,” the company said. “IBM is continuing to evolve the Watson Health business, based on our decade of experience, to meet the needs of patients and physicians.”

A sale would mark Mr. Krishna’s second major move to exit struggling businesses in less than a year at the helm. IBM last year said it planned to spin off its managed IT services division, which generated about $19 billion of annual revenue, or about a quarter of its total sales.

By slimming IBM down, Mr. Krishna expects IBM to deliver consistent mid-single-digit growth following a decade filled with revenue declines. IBM had $73.6 billion in sales last year, down from almost $100 billion in 2010.

IBM’s climb down also serves as a warning to the wider tech industry that sees healthcare as a promising growth market. Watson Health and some other tech-industry AI projects that have struggled were overly ambitious, trying to answer broad, complicated health-related questions, experts said. Watson Health, for instance, was marketed broadly as finding answers to all kinds of cancer, they said.

“When the notion is, ‘Well, we can answer any question in cancer care with this data,’ it’s too overwhelming. We don’t have the power to do that right now,” said David Agus, the chief executive of the Ellison Institute for Transformative Medicine at the University of Southern California and an early tester of the Watson system.

Another challenge is the lack of data-collection standards, which makes taking an algorithm that was developed in one setting and applying it in others difficult, experts said. “The customization problem is severe in healthcare,” said Andrew Ng, an AI expert and CEO of startup Landing AI, based in Palo Alto, Calif.

The most successful applications of AI in healthcare to date have been when the technology aims to solve discrete and narrow problems, according to Cynthia Burghard, research director at IDC Health Insights, a technology market research and advisory services firm. Such applications include alert systems that warn doctors which of their patients might be at risk for readmissions or severe outcomes and chatbots that help answer basic questions.

Recently, some healthcare providers and insurers also have married different data sources, including medical history and income-related information, to come up with risk scores for patients to identify those potentially more vulnerable to Covid-19 exposure to target outreach to them, she said. Such applications are easier to manage because they don’t involve diagnoses.

Other areas where AI has seen some successes include radiology and pathology, disciplines where image-recognition software can be applied to answer specific questions, experts said.

“It’s about incremental improvements. It’s not about solving the most complex things in healthcare,” she said. “We might get there someday, but [right now] it’s crawl, walk, run.”

Another area where the technology has had inroads is in streamlining business processes, like billing and charting, rather than in making diagnoses, experts said, because the stakes are lower, and there is better data to make these systems work. There are also clear financial incentives, they said.

“There’s a lot of human capital invested in these things, and a lot of that could be markedly reduced with AI support.” said Eric Topol, a cardiologist and executive vice president at Scripps Research.

Despite the challenges of applying AI in healthcare, experts said they expect investments to continue.

“The market size is infinite,” said USC’s Dr. Agus. “Healthcare is probably a trillion-dollar market and it’s probably 40% to 60% inefficient. So the notion that you can make it dramatically better with something as elegant as a machine-learning algorithm, or AI, which is scalable, obviously is very enticing.”

by
| | Reply
Post ID: @1koi+19ufREnL

Hopefully Red Hat is next

by
| | Reply
Post ID: @1naa+19ufREnL

Duh? Surprised it took this long.

by
| | Reply
Post ID: @1qxa+19ufREnL

“... Watson Health is a sad story...”

Can confirm.

If you don’t think Walton Health was junk and it needed to go, then you haven’t been paying attention..... it has nothing to do with IBM’s investment in AI. WH wasn’t worth it.

by
| | Reply
Post ID: @vmg+19ufREnL

Can you name some Execs who left Watson brand.
Dr John Kelly was "retired" and one name that comes to mind.

by
| | Reply
Post ID: @cky+19ufREnL

After the dismal 4th q earnings, IBM has to put some restructuring/streamlining points on the board, as they are moving way too slow on Newco. Doesn’t give you a lot of faith in current IBM management does it? I expect IBM already has a buyer, and this “leak” was just a stall to buy some time, as 1st q is 1/2 way over.

by
| | Reply
Post ID: @ylq+19ufREnL
Chapter 1: Moonshot
..
..
Chapter 2: Commercialization

And sometime during this time, the bean counters took over, and the visionaries who birthed it left in disgust.

by
| | Reply
Post ID: @oso+19ufREnL

Watson Health is a sad story.

Chapter 1: Moonshot. IBM Research built Watson, an intriguing and arguably ahead-of-its-time research project that was amazingly good at understanding written texts. Dazzled by its brilliance - Watson could even tell you if the "tone" of an email was wrong - IBM C suite "bet the company" on its transformative impact.

Chapter 2: Commercialization. Casting around for a monetizable application, IBM lit upon healthcare. It's a huge market, growing and structurally likely to keep doing so, and labor-intensive, crying out for more automation. Almost tailor-made as a "trap" for IBM execs, in fact. And so the original Watson Health was born.

Chapter 3: Disappointment. Watson Health was really good at reading medical texts and notes and making recommendations. Unfortunately it wasn't always better than a doctor; and even when it was, it wasn't so much better that the slight improvement merited the cost and complexity. High profile failures undermined the confidence of the market.

Chapter 4: Overtaken. While IBM had taken the "high road" of AI, the rest of the industry had invested in the "low road" of neural networks. These approaches had none of the "understanding" of the world that Watson's text analyzers displayed, but they proved very good at tasks like analyzing diagnostic imagery - a tedious, labor-intensive, error-prone task - that could be, to put it crudely, "brute forced" with big enough training sets. This approach - that required no explicit model of the world - soon dominated AI, both researches and products.

Chapter 5: Diversification. With the original Watson becoming irrelevant, IBM attempted to save the Watson Health brand (and its own reputation) by acquiring other companies in the health field, and hiring outside execs. Some of these pieces were actually AI, others nothing more than traditional BI and analytics. However, these pieces never came together into a compelling whole.

Chapter 6: The End. With disappointing revenues and no apparent path to profitability, IBM began to "right size" Watson Health. First it "hollowed out" the original Watson team. Then it sliced away at the acquisitions it had paid so heavily for and mothballed products. Nothing seemed to work. Finally there came the day when IBM acknowledged that it was time to let it go, and get what it could for the assets.

by
| | Reply
Post ID: @kuy+19ufREnL
like jettisoning cargo from an overloaded plane trying to maintain altitude

Yes, they are tossing out cargo, but they are also dumping a lot of fuel.

by
| | Reply
Post ID: @gcx+19ufREnL

Truly amazing. There will be nothing left at IBM soon except AK and a few cronies.

by
| | Reply
Post ID: @xza+19ufREnL

If ibm dumps 15 billion in revenue, how can they show it as cloud revenue and say it's growing.

by
| | Reply
Post ID: @ezg+19ufREnL

IBM is regressing to the IBM of the late 60’s or early 70’s Mainframe centered around (Govt, Finance, Banking, Insurance, and telco). Healthcare fits into Insurance (private) or Govt (medicare) and as such is disposable. Make no mistake, IBM is going to shrink their way into a Niche market (mainframe focused) built around Redhat transitioning of legacy SW. All of it serviced by GBS offerings. Everything else will go

by
| | Reply
Post ID: @uke+19ufREnL

Several weeks ago a cloud analyst suggested IBM dump 15 billion in revenue over 4 divisions (Power 1.5, storage 1.5, TPP 6.0, and Watson 6.0) They suggested IBM would do the first 3 and re-org Watson. Perhaps AK has other thoughts. Either way these 4 divisions are a boat anchor due to incredibly poor management and a total lack of vision or strategy. Perhaps a sale will set them free to innovate

by
| | Reply
Post ID: @aqb+19ufREnL

Astounding. This was supposed to be the moonshot. In 3-4 years headline will read "IBM explores sale of Red Hat".

by
| | Reply
Post ID: @lzc+19ufREnL

like jettisoning cargo from an overloaded plane trying to maintain altitude
I never understood, or bothered to explore, how Watson Health would withstand malpractice insurance.. altho I never see that raised as an issue - maybe because US is Land of Litigation so that is just considered normal SOP

by
| | Reply
Post ID: @xhv+19ufREnL

Post a reply

: